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Great article in the Guardian about wokeism

337 replies

inkognitha · 11/06/2025 08:51

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2025/jun/10/how-does-woke-start-winning-again

Good morning everyone.
Today, even the Guardian admits woke isn’t working.

« Yet Progressive Activists’ fatal flaw, the report argues, is that they’re further from mainstream public opinion on cultural issues than they realise. They’re the only group where a majority thinks that immigration should be as high or higher than it is now, and that protecting people from hate speech matters more than defending free speech (a key rationale behind “no debate” – the idea that trans identities aren’t up for discussion – and “no platforming”). They’re also the group most likely to think social change sometimes requires breaking the law, whereas two-thirds of Britons disapprove of protesters blocking roads or gluing themselves to things.
Tryl stresses that being outliers doesn’t invariably make Progressive Activists wrong – perhaps they’re just ahead of the curve, as the suffragettes once were – but it has important tactical implications. His polling shows that Progressive Activists overestimate by a factor of two to three how much others agree with their core beliefs, from abolishing the monarchy to letting children change gender. Consequently they tend to invest too little time on persuasion, focusing instead on mobilising the masses they wrongly imagine are on board. “If you’re reaching out to people, then you’re watering down,” is how Tryl describes this mindset.
While successful campaigns usually build the broadest base possible, Progressive Activists also tend to be purists, rejecting supporters who don’t endorse a complete worldview. (More than a quarter wouldn’t campaign alongside someone who believes – as a majority of Britons do – in Israel’s right to exist, for example.) Their yearning for grand systemic change means they can sound dismissive of other people’s small but well-meaning efforts, and they’re also unusually keen on correcting other people’s “mistakes” on diversity issues, something other groups consider likely to cause embarrassment. »

I hope some of the keyboard warriors/bullies roaming this board and the blue-haired, nose-pierced authoritarians will have a read, and at last, a think on how they do more harm than good.

How does woke start winning again? | Gaby Hinsliff

The long read: British progressives have suffered major setbacks in recent years, in both public opinion and court rulings. Was a backlash inevitable, and are new tactics needed?

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2025/jun/10/how-does-woke-start-winning-again

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
ColourThief · 12/06/2025 10:24

🙄🥱

MiloMinderbinder925 · 12/06/2025 10:21

ArtTheClown · 12/06/2025 10:19

The most angry I’ve ever been (on MN and practically ever) was when some poster defended defended the Manchester bomber - apparently a more worthy victim than those murdered.

Today alone I've seen at least two posters worrying about the "poor children" who raped the girl in Ballymena.

Allegedly. There hasn't been a trial.

ArtTheClown · 12/06/2025 10:19

The most angry I’ve ever been (on MN and practically ever) was when some poster defended defended the Manchester bomber - apparently a more worthy victim than those murdered.

Today alone I've seen at least two posters worrying about the "poor children" who raped the girl in Ballymena.

WhereIsMyJumper · 12/06/2025 10:18

FOJN · 12/06/2025 10:13

WhereIsMyJumper @ 09.58

Me too.

I feel sick at the thought of Reform ever being the party of government but I completely understand how so many people have been disenfranchised by both mainstream parties. The Conservatives simply ignored many people's legitimate concerns and did nothing to help and Labour insulted people for having opinions which did not align with their new woke ethos; literally telling people their concerns are not a Labour priority. A new party seems to be listening, what are people supposed to do? Vote for whoever their 'betters' instruct them to or take a chance on something different to shake things up.

I await responses from angry wokists with such piss poor reading comprehension they will not understand what I've written.

Angry wokists don’t understand nuance most of the time. Thats how seemingly sensible suggestions such as “we can’t have unchecked masses of illegal immigrants coming to the UK” gets misread as “I hate all brown people”

Ive definitely noticed a shift on MN since the last local elections. Reform was like anathema on here before then, but people have become emboldened by the huge gains they have made and are now making mainly sensible arguments in favour of voting for them. People don’t necessarily get scoffed at or told they are thick for voting for them anymore. Not that long ago, I’d have laughed in someone’s face if they said I would EVER consider an argument that’s pro Farage!

Now, as I said above, I do not know who I will vote for. Next general election is a way off yet. There’s still chance for Labour to pull it back or for any of the other main parties to step up more than they have once they realise there is a very real chance Farage will take no. 10. Who knows what the political landscape in the UK will be like. But, and I say this with a hard hat on, I’m not going to completely rule out voting for Reform.

Didshejustsaythatoutloud · 12/06/2025 10:18

Dangermoo · 11/06/2025 09:09

I actually had to check my eyes weren't deceiving me, when I read the source was the Guardian. Thanks for sharing OP. A very balanced and thought provoking article.

Me too 😂

MaturingCheeseball · 12/06/2025 10:18

Exactly, @SillyMillie90 . You often get, “Oh, you’re a fascist/racist/Reform” if you express the mildest criticism of clearly nutty or even offensive ideas. The most angry I’ve ever been (on MN and practically ever) was when some poster defended defended the Manchester bomber - apparently a more worthy victim than those murdered.

FOJN · 12/06/2025 10:17

StandFirm · 12/06/2025 10:01

We had a sweet spot, and then they fucked it up so much that we will end up going backwards.
Yes, but the problem is that if you look at who's behind Reform and the script that they are following, we'll not only 'go' backwards, we'll be speeding down the motorway in reverse at 200mph.

We know. You interpret this as bigotry becoming acceptable again rather than a reaction to the excesses of woke which is why the current direction of travel will continue until the sanctimonious wokists start to listen and show some humility.

FOJN · 12/06/2025 10:13

WhereIsMyJumper @ 09.58

Me too.

I feel sick at the thought of Reform ever being the party of government but I completely understand how so many people have been disenfranchised by both mainstream parties. The Conservatives simply ignored many people's legitimate concerns and did nothing to help and Labour insulted people for having opinions which did not align with their new woke ethos; literally telling people their concerns are not a Labour priority. A new party seems to be listening, what are people supposed to do? Vote for whoever their 'betters' instruct them to or take a chance on something different to shake things up.

I await responses from angry wokists with such piss poor reading comprehension they will not understand what I've written.

WhereIsMyJumper · 12/06/2025 10:11

StandFirm · 12/06/2025 10:01

We had a sweet spot, and then they fucked it up so much that we will end up going backwards.
Yes, but the problem is that if you look at who's behind Reform and the script that they are following, we'll not only 'go' backwards, we'll be speeding down the motorway in reverse at 200mph.

I don’t necessarily disagree although I can’t claim
to know much about how dangerous it would be if reform got in. I try to base my political opinions on logic and rationality rather than emotion. Next general election, I will try read the main parties policies and vote that way.

But the point you make is a good one as it’s happening in the US and all over Europe. We used to have a cultural pendulum, it would swing one side, then back the other as each generation sought to rebel against the generation before. But in reality, the pendulum swing from left of centre wit right of centre and back again. It was palatable for most people.

That pendulum has now become a wrecking ball. It smashed either side. Far left swings to far right. We need more balance

SillyMillie90 · 12/06/2025 10:06

The narrative that woke ultimately ate itself, becoming so shrill, sanctimonious and yet simultaneously brittle that a backlash was almost inevitable

Yes this!

Woke should be a good thing, standing up for those less fortunate and campaigning for good. But like most things it went too far and has now imo caused more harm than good as people push back the other way.

Woke started down a path of championing the underdog but not by raising them up but by putting others down. Inclusion became exclusion.

You start telling people their culture doesn’t matter or that they are the cause of all society’s ills and you get push back and at it’s extreme you get Andrew Tate, you get Far Right etc etc.

I personally see the term woke now as a negative and that is only the fault of those who didn’t include but excluded.

edited as typos

Dangermoo · 12/06/2025 10:01

WhereIsMyJumper · 12/06/2025 09:58

I used to consider myself left wing. Perhaps left of centre would be closer to the truth. When wokism first came in, I was all for it. It all seemed so reasonable.
More equality for women? I’m in!
No discrimination based on race? Absolutely!
Free and fair society for all? I’m on board!

But then it started to grow legs, started to creep so far to the left that it started becoming a little sinister. The TRA movement is a good example of this. People being told they’re privileged when they’re really not.

Now it’s gone so far that it’s on the brink of collapsing under its own absurdity. They’ve taken the political spectrum so far to the left that, without moving, I’m now apparently right of centre.

And people wonder why Reform are gaining so much traction. They fucked it. We had a sweet spot, and then they fucked it up so much that we will end up going backwards.

👏 👏

StandFirm · 12/06/2025 10:01

We had a sweet spot, and then they fucked it up so much that we will end up going backwards.
Yes, but the problem is that if you look at who's behind Reform and the script that they are following, we'll not only 'go' backwards, we'll be speeding down the motorway in reverse at 200mph.

WhereIsMyJumper · 12/06/2025 09:58

I used to consider myself left wing. Perhaps left of centre would be closer to the truth. When wokism first came in, I was all for it. It all seemed so reasonable.
More equality for women? I’m in!
No discrimination based on race? Absolutely!
Free and fair society for all? I’m on board!

But then it started to grow legs, started to creep so far to the left that it started becoming a little sinister. The TRA movement is a good example of this. People being told they’re privileged when they’re really not.

Now it’s gone so far that it’s on the brink of collapsing under its own absurdity. They’ve taken the political spectrum so far to the left that, without moving, I’m now apparently right of centre.

And people wonder why Reform are gaining so much traction. They fucked it. We had a sweet spot, and then they fucked it up so much that we will end up going backwards.

Dangermoo · 12/06/2025 09:56

Disgusting behaviour from the anti fascist brigade. 🙄

WhereIsMyJumper · 12/06/2025 09:49

FOJN · 12/06/2025 09:44

Wokism seems to be all about being ‘trendy’ - which ‘marginalised’ group can I support vehemently online so everyone thinks I’m a good person? Meanwhile, we have a homelessness problem but as the majority of people living on the streets are white males, it’s not ‘trendy’ to care.

Exactly. Wokism is a middle class hobby, it's all about virtue signalling whilst not actually upsetting the status quo in any meaningful way. Campaigning to eradicate manufactured victimhood means you never have to get involved in finding solutions to real and complex problems.

Completely agree. It’s usually more to do with the individual’s ego than it is helping an actual cause.

Before the internet, you’d have to work pretty hard within your community to be seen as moral. You’d need to be good to your family, your friends etc. People’s positive opinions of you would take a while to build up to them seeing you as a good person.
You can get instant virtue now - post the right flag on your profile, the right hashtag on your updates, hound a small bunny charity in wales and try to stop their funding because they accidentally followed the wrong account on TwiX….

Dangermoo · 12/06/2025 09:47

ArtTheClown · 12/06/2025 09:44

I can see that they would come across as quite threatening were you a fascist, white supremacist or on the extreme right, yes 😊

Antifa like to show up masked at women's rights demonstrations and hurt people.

I am very dubious about anybody who outwardly shows their support for the vile group, especially if they are a woman.

StandFirm · 12/06/2025 09:45

Nowayyousure · 12/06/2025 09:29

💯 this.

The Guardian need to apologise for their huge errors. They were/are so wrong. I wouldn't touch the rag now.

What do you read nowadays? Genuinely and neutral question.

ArtTheClown · 12/06/2025 09:44

I can see that they would come across as quite threatening were you a fascist, white supremacist or on the extreme right, yes 😊

Antifa like to show up masked at women's rights demonstrations and hurt people.

FOJN · 12/06/2025 09:44

Wokism seems to be all about being ‘trendy’ - which ‘marginalised’ group can I support vehemently online so everyone thinks I’m a good person? Meanwhile, we have a homelessness problem but as the majority of people living on the streets are white males, it’s not ‘trendy’ to care.

Exactly. Wokism is a middle class hobby, it's all about virtue signalling whilst not actually upsetting the status quo in any meaningful way. Campaigning to eradicate manufactured victimhood means you never have to get involved in finding solutions to real and complex problems.

StandFirm · 12/06/2025 09:38

spoonbillstretford · 11/06/2025 09:40

That's called disagreeing with people who have different views from you.

Wokeism is not a consistent movement consisting of all the people you don't agree with.

It's a concept invented by fat white old men on the internet who want to be racist and sexist and get away with it, and by far right plutocrats and their minions who want to cause hatred, fear and division in society, while pretending to support the poor working class people, while laughing at us and taking more of our money.

You are wrong about the origin of the term 'woke'. It was born out of the black community's civil rights fight in the US.

All it means at its heart is literally to have one's eyes open to systemic injustices. You can't address inequalities and injustice unless you see the problem in the first place.

In any group of people, you'll find wankers for sure. Any movement anywhere, any religion or political grouping will have people who try and impose a bigoted agenda. But that's not what woke is about. Ditch the word if you like but personally I will stick to its intention.

I'd rather be woke than sleepwalk into fascism.

Look who's perverting and killing democracy from the inside and tell me if you really think they're the future of mankind...

WhereIsMyJumper · 12/06/2025 09:38

Dangermoo · 12/06/2025 09:35

Don't forget ageist.

Oh yes, that too

Dangermoo · 12/06/2025 09:35

WhereIsMyJumper · 12/06/2025 09:32

Where did I insult anyone? We’ve already been called racist and homophobic on page 2…

Don't forget ageist.

Dangermoo · 12/06/2025 09:35

crackofdoom · 12/06/2025 09:25

Oh, OK, as I thought. They're anti fascists and march against fascist, hard right and white supremacist organisations. With roots in the groups in 1920s and 30s Germany who fought hard to try and stop Hitler gaining power.

I can see that they would come across as quite threatening were you a fascist, white supremacist or on the extreme right, yes 😊

Yes, I did suspect your query about them wasn't in good faith; I was right. Fascists are intolerant and discriminatory. I guess threatening women, who fight for single sex spaces, amongst other basic rights, don't feature in Antifa's group of people who need support.

WhereIsMyJumper · 12/06/2025 09:32

crackofdoom · 12/06/2025 09:20

As a blue haired, not nose pierced, occasional authoritarian with my DC, I wholeheartedly agree. You absolutely lost me when you started on the insults.

Where did I insult anyone? We’ve already been called racist and homophobic on page 2…

Swipe left for the next trending thread