Dog lovers aren’t animal lovers

Very well said.

Having children is one of the worst things we can do environmentally yet we have posters here with multiple kids berating anyone who owns a dog 🙈

Dogs and cats cause significantly less harm to the ecosystem and planet than humans! I would never have kids and would never breed animals for pets or money, but don't see an issue with looking after an animal someone has dumped in a shelter and giving it the best life I can. If everyone stopped taking animals from shelters tomorrow, all that would happen is those animals would die.

If we dissect every environmentally damaging/selfish thing a human does in their daily life, there wouldn't be anything 'fun' left. Also who gets to be the final moral arbiter of what is acceptable and what isn't? If someone eats meat and has a pet dog, but doesn't have children and never travels abroad, is that worse for the environment than a vegan with a couple of kids who goes on holiday every year? How do people quantify these things in their mind to get worked up over people making different life choices to them? Are vets allowed to eat meat or does that go against the work they do to help animals?

The impact of our existence is so insignificant in the grand scheme of time and space that arguing that over whether someone didn't do life as well as you because they ate meat or had a pet dog is a bit silly really.

Yes, they do. But you can only run a KC registered pedigree dog in a KC trial - there is no crossbreed registry for that.

If a dog becomes a FTCh and also a ShCh, it's what's called a dual champion. Very few of those crop up these days, and never in the spaniels and retrievers as the field lines do not win in the show ring.

I don't really think you know anything about dogs at all.

You know what I meant. Dogs as they are now. The weird over-bred inbred manipulated for specific traits dogs.

That figures, should have know you were a vegan.

Many dog owners don't like animals in general. They just like their dog as a part of themselves.

How many of them let them chase or scare wildlife, annoy other dogs or cats, all those interactions when their dog them is the only animal which matters.

This is really interesting.
Please correct me if I am wrong, I don’t know too much about the KC but when I was googling my pup’s ancestors from his KC certificate, many of them are working labs and several had ‘FT CH’ before their name (which I had to google) so am I right in thinking the KC also has field trials for working dogs too?

I always feel sorry for indoor cats too.

At the very least people shouldn’t get a cat unless they are willing to pay for a Catio or other outside enclosure if they feel their road is too busy to be safe (but also, don’t get a cat if you live on a busy road).

Humans created dogs 😂😂😂😂😂

I think animal lover is the wrong term. Animal respecter might be better.

Of course dog lovers aren't animal lovers. The vast majority of them eat them. Call yourself a dog lover or a cat lover, but you're not an animal lover if you eat them...

Sadly, I can't disagree with much of that. Wish I could but I can't. And you're right, my dog is by far them most important relationship in my life. I took her on to help her but for my benefit too. Hmm, more thinking required!

I was thinking about her diet too and domesticated dogs' diets in general. One poster upthread I think said that 6million animals are slaughtered in the UK in order to feed pets (I might not have remembered that right). I'm uncomfortable with that but I also don't know if it's accurate and I'm not sure there is a way to find out with any certainty. What I would say though is that some dogs actually eat very little meat. Take a can of Pedigree Chum. It's a shit food but it sells so dogs are being fed it but it contains (difficult to work out to be honest) about 10% Meat and Animal Derivatives. Much of it is cereal but that comes at a cost to living creatures too. Harvey Weinstein has just come on TV - perhaps I could feed her him!

Edited to say: I don't have kids so I am doing well for the planet there!

I do think that 'in the grand scheme of things' this chat forum DOES matter

Well, I'll have to disagree with that. It may change the mind of a few people, but humans are selfish, always have been, always will be. Even if we all become vegan, we will still be selfish as a species. That's how we've progressed - it's our survival instincts.

These are good points well made. Fair enough. I do have children (only two). I do obviously have a phone, because we simply can't manage in this country without one. Mine is four years old, and I only replace them when they are on their last legs. My laptop is pre-loved (not especially an eco choice, but a financial one, but still, I do try to use pre-loved where possible). I also have a car but will give it up the second I possibly can, because I am sick of driving (think it's a menopause thing!) and the cost is pissing me off. Literally can't get my children where they need to go in time without it though. But yes - point taken.

I do think that 'in the grand scheme of things' this chat forum DOES matter though, and changes are made. People have changed my mind on some things due to this forum. And I remember posting about veganism on here over 15 years ago when I was pregnant with my first child, and was universally shut down. Now we have a whole vegan section - its own board, no less! So change does happen, and discussions do help. I wouldn't waste my time otherwise.

Why is it "dumb"?
I get that you consider it selfish, and I do agree that many dog owners are selfish. They don't consider that their dog would rather be running around the fields, being a dog, than trailing around a shopping centre or sitting in a coffee shop.
But why dumb exactly?

I hear ya!

However ...

I still maintain that taking a dog from a no kill shelter just perpetuates dog ownership and the cycle of death at slaughterhouses. If people stopped taking them on (I despise the term adopted), they would have to rethink their model. I do think taking on dogs from shelters is merely prolonging the inevitable. I am sure you are attached to the dog you have, which colours your view. But from my perspective, your dog is no more deserving of life than the x number of farmed animals killed to keep it alive.

And not aimed at you in particular, but all dog owners. Dog ownership (and pets, really) are detrimental to the ecosystem. They are against the natural order of things. They are bad for the planet. We talk about being ecologically responsible in this thread, people talk about being agains aviation and importation, but dogs and cats cause a LOT of harm. People need to think beyond the ball of fluffy snuggles in front of them, and really think outside the mainstream narrative.

Anyway. Back to the main OP! If people must have dogs I do at least wish they'd stop proclaiming to be animal lovers.

It's true though. We're all sat here on devices, most likely made by slave labour in some factory somewhere, powered by batteries that destroy the planet, debating on an online forum about something that, really, in the grand scheme of things, doesn't matter in the slightest.

Most people will also have children, drive cars and do multiple things a day that are purely for their own benefit or enjoyment. There is not a single person on this planet who isn't selfish, with the exception of very small children.

What a sad position to take.

All humans are selfish.

I’m not vegan…mostly I just think dog ownership is dumb and selfish. And I’m capable of using Google to understand facts

I have a friend whose dogs are similar - they look doddery and confused on walks but they're healthy, regularly see the vet and are absolutely fine - just old.

True. I'm sure my lot don't look great on walks. I'm usually dragging the 17 yr old (who has walked that slow since she was a puppy and makes me pull her up hills!).
Then the 16 yr old is blind and has dementia so walks into things, stumbles, etc.
I'm sure they look rough to other people but they are both happy girls.

Also all my dogs were fed vegan food (like me!) for about 8 yrs, they were perfectly happy and healthy. I only recently went back to meat as their appetites had reduced and they needed more incentive.

Yes, I read about Bramble. It's very interesting. Still not convinced but maybe I'll try with the next dog. Don't know.

Re But it also may as well not be anyone...

If you adopt from a no-kill shelter, there is someone feeding them. I figure it may as well be me.

I think although not totally, we largely agree, and that's a refreshing change for me on MN 😀

Probably not understanding (that's the autism for you).

Didn't you say earlier in the thread that you'd spoken to people about their dogs on walks before?

EDIT: you said you'd risk offending someone if you thought their dog was in pain.

If you spoke to me about my dog being in pain based on a snapshot of him limping, I would genuinely probably cry. Because it implies that I'm both stupid and uncaring, neither of which would be true.