Dog lovers aren’t animal lovers

Now you’re just making things up.

I haven’t said anything about how I’d react (except upthread where I admitted I’d probably burst into tears) but you only have to look on social media to know that you could easily approach the wrong person and get a gobful (or worse).

I wouldn’t have felt the need to say anything in the situation you describe - lots of old animals are doddery and slow. If I genuinely felt there was abuse or neglect going on then I would try and get a video and speak to the RSPCA.

Interested to know what you would have done in this situation @tumblingdowntherabbithole Also, all the others who have put the boot in.

People don’t think health tests are important. They are. They also think crossbreeds = hybrid vigour. They don’t unless you get multiple breeds over multiple generations.

As a trainer I’d rather see a health tested responsibly bred pedigree than a non tested cross. I’ve had both myself. My cross was a rescue who was a real mix. She lived a long and healthy life. My pedigree is young but we have stacked the odds in our favour with health tested parents and meeting multiple generations.

The poor quality of breeding is making life complicated for all of us. I want an adventure buddy that will be fit and healthy for 12 years plus. I am staggered when I meet people coming into my agility classes with non health tested dogs that are showing issues and the owners are clueless about the long term impact and have no idea when I gently probe breeder info. It’s more common than you’d realise.

Ssh, you’ll ruin her narrative 😉

Yes you are right. A lot of dog owners don’t treat their dogs as well as they could. A lot of parents don’t treat their children as well as they could.

I’m a little unsure on the shitting themselves comment though - dogs rarely wear nappies or are in such a small space that they’d have to sit in their own shit? Humans on the other hand can be completely incontinent, paralysed and lots of other things but are still kept alive.

Never seeing daylight?
Sheep? Cattle? Free-range pigs and chickens?

@redboxer321 the difference is that vets are professionals with years of training who have been asked for their opinion 🫣

One day you’ll approach the wrong person and receive a gobful or find yourself on social media for upsetting someone unnecessarily.

Personally I have little time for the sort of people who only want newly fashionable breeds. And in particular, anyone who uses the apparent explosion of tiny little dogs as fashion accessories.

FFS! Now I'm being accused of tackling people and being nasty to those who are clearly not acting in the best interests of their dogs!

I didn't want to give an example but I think it's important so I will. We are encouraged to call out cruelty and neglect when we see it with other animals, so why not dogs? It doesn't necessarily mean the person is a bad person, often not, often can't face up to things or just getting things wrong.

Anyhow the example:
I saw a dog in the park. Overweight, looked old. It was off lead but was laying down and wouldn't follow its owner who had walked off. The owner went back to the dog, put its lead on and pretty much dragged it. The dog was on its paws but was digging them into the ground, head down, clearly not wanting to walk. When it did walk, you could see there was little movement in the hip joint and it was a real struggle to walk. This was not the first time I had seen this pattern of behaviour and I had been working up to say something. When the owner walked past me and my dog, I found the courage to do so. I didn't tell them to put their dog to sleep or anything remotely like that. I can't remember what I said but I opened a conversation somehow and eventually the owner agreed that a vet visit may be a good idea. We parted on good terms. I saw the owner minus dog some time later. The dog had had scans which revealed it had cancer and severe arthritis. The owner then said it was their partner's dog and the partner had died and they were keeping it going as a link to their partner. Very sad for all concerned. I see the person occasionally and we exchange pleasantries.

If by doing this I was being nasty, interfering or acting out of turn, then so be it.

As I have said, I am always happy for someone to say something to me if they notice something. In fact, someone did. She later told me, when I thanked her for saying what she did, that she had just been making a jokey comment but it got me thinking and I realised I needed to modify my dog's walks. Which I did.

For those of you saying I only get a snapshot of the dog, that is often not true (see above), and what do you think vets get exactly?

Similarly, I think the official breeding systems for purebred dogs are damaging and fundamentally flawed - even much of the testing done and the restrictions on breeding "pet" dogs - because it allows people to think that issues in the breed are really being addressed, when in fact the main effect is to further restrict the genetic variation in the population which long term will be the destruction of many breeds and actually locks in problems.

I think this is a rather simplistic view of a complex problem and is, in part, likely informed by thinking about dogs like Frenchies (for example).

There are definitely issues with pedigree breeding. But there are also a lot of responsible breeders out there, including myself, who breed selectively to ensure healthy robust puppies that are capable of doing the work their breed was bred to do.

'Genetic variation' can more than easily be done within a breed without resorting to mixing breeds to get, what ultimately, are very expensive mongrels - which, I assume, is what you mean. That mongrels are healthier than pedigrees.

This is very often not the case. Healthy, robust, pedigrees with the right temperament and health tests - that everyone should want their dogs parents and grandparents to have had - are never bred with other breeds to produce these designer doodles or mongrels. There is a reason why so many of these designer doodles do have so many behavioural issues - a combination of poor breeding & poor ownership.

My dogs, for example, are some of the healthiest (in terms of health scores) that I know of for their breed. But I would never breed my girls with a Poodle to produce a designer doodle. Why? Because I breed to make my breed better.
The sorts of dogs that are used to create these 'healthier' designer doodles, are very often not the best examples of their beed. Therefore the myth that 'mongrels' or 'doodles' are healthier is actually wrong, as very often their dam/sire are not the healthiest dogs (hence why they are not being used for pedigree breeding).

The problem is, too many people buy into false narratives online (gosh, where have we seen disinformation before...) and are also so demanding about wanting 'this dog or that dog' or wanting a dog 'with a flat face because it's cute.' Instead of prioritising, healthy, happy dogs from good breeders - which was OP's point.

We can also live out our years without reproducing and let other species have a crack at not destroying the planet. Personally, if I existed in a vacuum and it was socially acceptable, I'd choose to refuse modern medicine or opt for euthanasia if it meant I would die sooner. Other people have different priorities in life. Me eating meat occasionally doesn't in any way stop you being a vegan does it?

Same time I was going to bed, night shift.

@redboxer321
Is what you said to me not nasty? It's certainly belittling, when I was trying to be lighthearted on a goady thread.

There's a lot of nasty stuff on this thread. Saying you'd tackle someone if you thought their dog was suffering, is that not nasty when you don't know their circumstances?

FWW I agree with some of what you say.

Anyway, I'm done.

Oh and are all the vegans out in force this morning.

I mean - sure OP, there are bad dog owners out there.

But there are also people who have differing opinions about what constitutes poor animal welfare. Your personal views on what counts as a "good" owner aren't self-evident.

Example: I keep poultry, free range. For two reasons, one being I live in an area with a lot of ticks that carry Lyme disease, and it keeps them under control. I also think it's healthier and a better life for the birds, even though there is the risk of predation. I've had poultry breeders refuse to sell birds to me because it is apparently horrible not to keep birds their whole lives in a completely enclosed coop in order to prevent them being eaten by predators or catching diseases (though close quarters are a much bigger disease risk imo.)

Similarly, I think the official breeding systems for purebred dogs are damaging and fundamentally flawed - even much of the testing done and the restrictions on breeding "pet" dogs - because it allows people to think that issues in the breed are really being addressed, when in fact the main effect is to further restrict the genetic variation in the population which long term will be the destruction of many breeds and actually locks in problems.

Hardly drink the stuff now, had this name for over 10 years.

'Why is eating meat any different to taking advantage of modern medicine to cure illness? Plenty of drugs have been tested on animals before being prescribed to humans.'

Hmm what's the difference between animals suffering so you can enjoy a pork pie or essential testing to develop medicines? I mean it isn't difficult is it, one is for greed/pleasure the other is for treatment. It's about priorities and necessities. We can live without bacon butties, we can't live without medication.

This is true. Up to a point. But there are different ways of looking at it. Certainly there are status dog breeds but sadly, that has always been the case and will probably never change. Regulation solves nothing because people will just ignore it. But that is an entirely different subject.

Ooh my beagle would have that off you in seconds 🤣

Please! I’m a dog owner and I love eating animals

😆 I settled for a mini pork pie, dogs not impressed 😁

Ooh no, rare steak if you’re buying 😂

Whatever you say. You're the expert on dogs, after all. The rest of us know nothing.