AIBU to be utterly baffled at how many people are falling for Reform after the Brexit mess?

Absolutely, but it's not helpful to shut them down with insults. For some reason they get called thick (amongst other insults). By insulting people and shutting them down, you are not understanding them.

Trump has respectable approval ratings. Nothing surprises me anymore.

Do I mean Oswald Moseley, former member of the Conservative Party and then the Labour Party who went on to found the British Union of Fascists? Yes, I do.

A similar trajectory to Reform MP Lee Anderson (although from very different social classes) who was a member of the Labour Party, a supporter of Arthur Scargill, who campaigned for Michael Foot and the Labour Party in the 1983 General Election but who was suspended from the Labour Party for bricking up the entrance to a legal Traveller community site. He then defected to the Conservatives and then to Reform.

@Fluffyholeysocks of course no one has to justify themselves, but it helps to understand what motivates people and what they think they are voting for. We do need to try and understand other people's perspectives and why they make the choices that they do. To me that is an essential part of democracy, the representation of people's views.

I agree - if Labour were doing a good job, Reform would not be getting the attention it is getting. Put simply, the Tories and Labour haven't done a good job of listening to the people while in Government. People want change and Reform are offering that.
People do not need to understand all of Reform policies, it doesn't matter why, when challenged,what Reform voters are voting for. No one has to justify their vote, at the end of the day every vote counts equally whether it's an informed vote or a uninformed vote. No one has to study manifestos to vote. People want change - the present Labour Government and the previous Tory Government are not and were not popular. Instead of insulting Reform voters, try and understand why people are voting for them. There's much room for improvement in our elected representatives - the Labour Party and Conservative Party need to get better and get better quick. Focus on themselves and not Reform.

@MargoLivebetter if I knew I wouldn't be here! Seriously, the bonus system for anything public sector is just immoral, and you only need to look at Thames water and the trains to see what a mess all previous governments have made.
I know personally of a few cock ups, which whilst being swept under the carpet and fixed, (GWR new trains with the electrics on the outside, great for London to Bristol etc.., but past Exeter, and ooh, whats that big blue stuff to the left, ah, sea, hmm salt water and electrics - how on earth could that go wrong?).
The ombudsman for each sector actually needs to have power, the constant mess with the water companies has been lack of investment because they must create a dividend, as a homeowner/renter/business your water can only come from one place - therefore, results should be on how much leakage/sewage release etc.., get those to sensible levels, then start giving bonuses.
From my very simple point of view, we as a country seem to be lowering everything to the lowest common denominator, rather than striving for success we are choosing a 'lets not rock the boat' option. We see this everywhere, rather than address the problem (social housing/anti social behaviour/petty crime) a huge song and dance is made about the issue - everyone knows what the issue is, we have a breakdown in getting help to the people which need help!
It's not rocket science, but, and I think that this is the biggest issue, we need to encourage more society involvement, kind neighbours, active hospital helpers, community groups get the anonymous keyboard warriors out of their bedrooms and do things, rather than moan - more encouragement for cubs/scouts/guides etc.., police cadets all this is out there, instead of giving school children credit for turning up and behaving at school, give these credits for active involvement in the community, try and change the relationship at an earlier age.
Yes there will be people who need more help than others, and some will be extremely rich and others very poor, but, and here is an example, the labour party abolished the 'no one will leave school with out being able to read or write' policy, quite a few years ago, how in 2025 we can actually allow young adults to leave education without the basic building blocks for being an active citizen, words fail me.
Sorry getting a bit ranty! I'll take my tablets and go to a dark room.....

But is it reform setting the agenda or is it that reform are tapping into the feeling of the country.

The last government did nothing about immigration despite the fact the general public feel that it is too high (69% according to IPSOS).

Reform as we all know is extremely anti-immigration, this has led to Labour becoming stronger on immigration.

Is this Reform setting the agenda or is this Labour acting on public feeling due to fear of Reform?

My view is that if you believe in democracy then Reform is actually a good thing because the major parties have ignored the views of the general public on certain things for years. With Reform they are now scared of losing power and so are looking at taking notice of those areas and considering watering down reform ideas and making them more reasonable .

It’s a bit of a tired old trope to keep comparing Trump and/or Reform to Nazis. It’s another one that nobody is buying anymore

Because Labour f*cked up. Big time. And now people want out. People failed to read the labour manifesto - which is as empty as diane abbots head.
And now they've got stung by it, which anyone with half a brain could see was going to happen.

Unfortunatly, as is the way with these things, people have swung from one extream to the other

Do you mean former LABOUR MP Oswald Moseley?

And your point is @TheNoonBell? I mean is that all you've got? Do you know what the word former means?

People fall for Reform for the same reason others fall for Labour, the Greens or the SNP - they vote for what they want their chosen party to represent, rather than what they actually represent.

In the case of Reform gaining support, it's not despite of what happened with Brexit, it's because of what happened with Brexit. Many Brexit voters didn't get the kind of Brexit they thought they were voting for - in many cases, a version that was never on the table in the first place.

A substantial number of people voted Leave because they wanted to fully leave the EU and other European bodies that had control over legislation in this country. A lot wanted an end to immigration, and the removal of people who had entered the country over the last few decades (and their relatives born here). They wanted a version of Britain that was self-reliant and dominated foreigners rather than integrated them into our society.

This wasn't what was on offer with Brexit, it's not what Reform are offering either, but Reform represent the closest party to the mainstream who align with such views - even though they don't.

There's also the fact that in someone like Farage there is an alternative to the deceitful politician who pretends to be competent but isn't. Starmer, Johnson, Blair - all useless in their own way, all dishonest and self-serving. Farage is different because there is no pretence that he will be any good - everyone knows he won't be, even his supporters. Perhaps counter-intuitively, this is an attraction for many - they don't want a liar like Starmer, they want a liar like Farage. Trump has shown this tactic can be used very successfully.

The main thing I disagree with Reform on is environmental policies (or lack thereof)

But I also recognise that if you want your population to care about climate change, you need to fix their other immediate issues first. Caring about the planet unfortunately is a privileged position to be in. So is caring about illegal immigrants. If the UK was the land of plenty, if people could afford to rent and/or buy their own homes, have decent childcare options, not worry about putting food on their own tables or heating their homes then they would have much more headspace to care about the planet and people potentially fleeing persecution.

Now I am not for one minute suggesting Reform is the party to fix all of this. But I also don’t really believe any party is coming to the table to try and make a meaningful change to people’s lives for the better. It’s a shit situation to be in right now for many.

People are struggling and unhappy and you can hardly blame them for not wanting to give a shit about D&I or climate change or illegal immigrants crossing on boats. They’re being shouted at by the left the whole time, being told they must #bekind and that they’re all privileged because they’re straight/white/british - whatever. I think this is why Trump got in to power.

AGAIN, I feel like I need to state this over and over. I’m not aligned to any party, nor do I support Trump. Just making an observation.

Well people fell for the Nazis, people are falling for MAGA in the US.
And people fell for Starmer, even though he sits on the fence and then changes his mind ten times before breakfast.

Similar reasons to why intelligent Europeans are falling for far right parties?

I think it will be very interesting to see how Reform cope with their power in the local authorities where they now have control of or are the biggest party in the council. I was reading at the weekend of at least one place where no other party will go into coalition with them because they simply don't know what Reform policies are at a local level. They seem to campaign on National isdues, mostly linked to immigration but when it comes to bin collection or allocating budget to compulsory activities they have not got a clue. It will be very interesting to see if they hang on to council seats next year or whenever that council next votes.

He must be on some level to have got this far. It doesn’t work for me but it must tap into to something for many people.

Well people fell for the Nazis, people are falling for MAGA in the US.

People fall for the far right, it seems.

Yes he actually is. I may not agree with what he is communicating, but he is good at communicating. I’ve seen him put on the spot with difficult questions and have only ever seen him answer them directly and straight off the cuff.

Doesn’t mean I agree with the content of his words, but he knows how to deliver. That’s why he is gaining popularity.

Unfortunately he really is. He’s way better than any of the other party leaders.

@TheCoralShaker Farage, a brilliant communicator?? 😂😂😂😂😂😂

@Lonelydave when you say government is broken, what do you mean by that?

How would you propose public sector chief execs performance is measured? Do you think that the bonus systems for the privatised water companies has been a success?

Yes their are far too many people falling for reform and it's easy to see why, government across the board is completely broken. We cant build decent infrastructure, because of a random newt somewhere, developers state one thing then do the other and the cost taking everything to court is just coming out of the taxpayers money rather than a simple, you said the development would be this, it isn't therefore 50% fine.
Local councils go after someone who has put the wrong thing in the wrong bin, its just a merry go round.
Civil service and local government need major reforms and actually be accountable, as these are 'gateway services' into the political parties it should break up the complete nonsense which we have at the moment.
And we need to have a bit more of a responsible and open conversation about the two things which no-one is allowed to talk about immigration and the NHS, not like 7 year olds in the playground which is what we have at the moment.
Additionally we need to get a society back, far, far too many people just live in boxes, go to work/school/shops in box and travel back in the same box, we have created a vanilla society where people are afraid of change.
Finally, pay of local government top brass, NHS, Fire, Police, civil service all of these need to be tied in to performance, and not have a revolving door of 'I cocked up here, head down for 6 months, I'll move to another authority and get paid more'
Reform are only in it for themselves, as I believe most MP's and councillors are, we all see how much council tax has increased, yet MP's with their 2nd home can offset this - um, you taketh with one hand and taketh with the other.

Do you mean former LABOUR MP Oswald Moseley?

@foxinbluesox what jobs do you see the long-term unemployed doing? Where would the increased economic activity come from? How would it be generated. Again genuine questions, as whilst I see this as a really good thing to do, I'm just curious how Reform would succeed where others seem to struggle. I'm watching Trump's attempts in the US with interest (and some horror).

This is very normal. Eastern Europe is very vocally much more anti immigration than Western Europe, which is kind of ironic when you think of it...