AIBU to be utterly baffled at how many people are falling for Reform after the Brexit mess?

Yes there are global problems but the UK has deteriorated sharply when compared with similar economies -that happened during the tory years and because of tory policies, including Brexit. It baffles me that people are in denial about this.

I have to travel to Europe frequently and for most European countries the recession is a very distant memory. Their wages have been growing with the economy and they have new infrastructure and healthcare (free in some cases) that we in the UK can only dream of. Infrastructure in the UK is stuck in the 90s and is holding the country back so badly.

It's sad that the electorate can't see that we are in this situation because of the political choices of the tory party. It's sadder that labour has no ideas other than pandering to pensioners.

Ha yep.

It could work out that having a bunch of people elected with no experience even of opposition could be a breath of fresh air. Or it could be a shitshow.

I'm in Kent. Reform holds pretty much all councillor seats now. They've basically cancelled our county council as they can't be bothered to fucking turn up to do what they were elected to do. Absolute shit show, and it hasn't come as a massive surprise to anyone. Do all the Reform voters even care?

Well they're now lumped with their protest vote running their councils. I hope they're happy.

Their target voters seem to be people wanting to turn back time to the former “good old days.” Farage’s latest comments on wanting to bring back coal mining to Wales shows a disconnect with current realities.

I also have no idea. If you tell people they're misinformed they say you're sneering at them.

This is a nonsense post.

Firstly it assumes that all those calling Reform voters "thick" are Labour supporters despite the fact that Labour voters are a minority in the UK. You think Tory, Libdem, SNP, etc. voters aren't calling Reform voters thick?

Secondly anyone who thinks GB News is an actual news channel is a bit thick. As is anyone who talks seriously of Marxist globalists, Marxist popes. Or calls KS a "tyrant". They're thick as mince and blindly parroting a line that's been fed to them without knowing what the words mean.🙄

Thirdly anyone who casts their vote because a random on the internet called them "stupid" is stupid.🤷‍♀️

Change is definitely afoot. Before the last locals, a thread like this would be full of ‘Reform voters are thick’ type comments but now it appears to be a little more balanced than it was. People who silently voted reform may feel emboldened by the gains they have made and be more likely to discuss their political standpoint which will often be more nuanced and sensible than the bleating “stop the boats” rhetoric

Very well said

No idea. How do you suggest countering misinformation?

It wasn't a vote FOR UKIP, Brexit nor Reform. It's a vote AGAINST the Tories and Labour and huge numbers of people are utterly fed up of the two main parties. It's why Libdems did so well under Nick Clegg - it was the same where people were voting for something different, something other than Tories and Labour. Just a shame that Clegg just turned out to be the same as them which is why they've crashed and burned ever since. People want change, they don't want the same old see-saw between one incompetent set of politicians to another incompetent set of politicians. We all know that Reform and Farage are incompetent too, but voting for Reform is a vain hope that the Tories and Labour will change their ways and actually start listening and understanding the electorate!

You have announced your intention to vote Reform as a local shop is flogging Monster to kids and the righteous menfolk might go round there to sort it out? And then you have tried to link his with the grooming scandal, which is a bit of a reach to say the least. Honestly.

And if misinformation is driving people?

By having a party of competent MPs in whom the electorate have confidence to implement the policies that they stood for election on.

How do you persuade them?

Basck in the day it was single mothers who were the scourge of society.

I am not a reform supporter but work in an area where many are

this are just some of the questions

lots of Reform voters see the problems in cost of living etc as world wide problems which they are ( therefore unlikely to have been caused by brexit which was UK only thing)
Reform voters think the costs of Covid impacting government income and expenditure where the former crashed due to many businesses being closed and the latter because of money on furlough etc as well as NHS
then came Ukraine war which caused fuel oil and gas costs to rocket and food supplies from wheat to drop
These affect all the world food prices and energy prices are high across Europe definitely not caused by brexit
so when folks say we are in this mess because of brexit they don't believe it they see it as the playing them for voting brexit not the real culprits of Covid and war.

also while I understand t it is very complex, it is hard to understand why we are short of nurses and doctors but newly qualified nurses doctors and teachers can't get permanent jobs or training posts
Why do we increase spending on overseas aid but then take the doctors and nurses away from the same countries when they are desparately needed there

There are shortages of care staff and hospitality workers but loads of people are
unemployed

it seems ridiculous to import food and energy in chasing net zero instead of being more self suffiecient in terms of food, energy and things like steel
how is it really helping the planet to use solar panels made in China fuelled by coal fired power stations to be shipped to UK ( it is just because they are made in China the carbon footprint is not counted as UK carbon footprint) instead of using our own oil and gas supplies in the North sea?

why can't my child get help ar school with Maths and English but someone's elses kid gets help because English is second language

if people move here why aren't they required to learn English, You are required to learn the native language in many European countries ie France Denmark Sweden the Netherlands and translators are not provided after a few years

Traditionally builders, plumbers hairdressers voted labour now labour seem to look down on this type of worker and they feel Reform doesn't look down on them ( this is probably not the case as I think all politicians somewhat despise voters)

As someone else said only when people have a decent job, their kids in an okay school and reasonably quick access to health care and justice / police if they need them and a home they can afford will they take interest in issues like climate change, diversity, TWAW vs GC, hunting, in Scotland gaelic signposts in non gaelic speaking areas, the arts etc

While obviously not in the same budget it grates when bins aren't emptied but councillors claim free lunches when everyone else has to pay for their own
but unfortunately the narrative that the reason you are poor is because someone just slightly poorer than you is taking the resources gains traction when actually it is the already doing OK ones that are taking the resources
to use the old analogy if you have a biscuit it seems like the new people also claiming a biscuit are the problem ( you don't mind the folks with 2-3 biscuits they just worked hard) because you are unaware that there is a small group with 10 bisuits an even smaller group with 100 biscuits and a tiny group with 1000's of biscuits, but the group with 1000's of biscuits comtrol all the biscuits and won't share theirs they just redistribute the biscuits between the folks that have 1-3 biscuits in different ways and the next political party does the same redistribuing the 1-3 biscuits in a slightly different but oh so much fairer way but only ever so mildly impinging on the 10-1000's biscuit holders if left wing the 10 biscuit people may go down to 9.5 if right wing they go up to 10.5 but the 3 biscuit people are still lead to believe it is the new 1 biscuit people that are the problem

I clocked an article from 2010 discussing the battle between Labour and the BNP for Barking.

It feels like little has changed in fifteen years.

Oh, that's not fair. Sometimes they change it up a bit. This time last year Tory voters weren't thick but immoral for voting for a party who would throw the vulnerable, like the disabled, the elderly and the young under the bus. Apparently people should vote for Labour, presumably to make a proper job out of it?

Yes you see that on mn a fair bit.

@carrotycrumble this is all down to social media and certain influencers, you can now live your whole life without having to experience an alternative point of view, add to that the masses of the alternative lifestyle lot who shout from the rafters 'what about me?' whilst disrupting everyone elses day to day activities.
As a country as a whole, we are lacking grown up discussion, politeness when expressing a different point of view, and in general anything complicated or 'triggers' causes panic with the politicos.

Any person who votes for a party other than Labour is inherently described as ‘lacking critical thinking skills’. With apparently no sense of irony or indeed awareness of how patronising they sound.

‘If you don’t vote like me you’re thick’, basically.

I completely agree with this too. We need to be able to discuss politics and view points in a non-emotional way because it helps nobody.

I know someone who would say something along the lines of “I cannot believe my neighbours have a reform poster in their window. This is a respectable area and all reform voters are thick” and then went on to say they shouldn’t be allowed to vote, and shouldn’t even be allowed to express their views or say their opinions out loud. When pressed further, asked if she believes in free speech, she essentially said that she only agrees with free speech if someone holds the ‘right’ opinions.

It helps nobody. Open, respectful discourse is far better

Agree @Fluffyholeysocks I never understand why when two people disagree it immediately turns into a personal attack on the others. I think we should all talk about these things more. We don't have to agree with the other person's perspective but if we don't try and understand it and just say that they are "stupid" or "woke" then our ears are shut and we're never going to find a way forward that might work for everyone.

Obviously, the media hate compromise. Conflict is a far better seller, pitting one group against another generates clicks and sales. They have a great deal to answer for.