AIBU to be utterly baffled at how many people are falling for Reform after the Brexit mess?

@WhereIsMyJumper yes, in the Reform manifesto they do say that a referendum is needed to consider Proportional Representation, after we've left the European Convention of Human Rights (first on the list) and outlawed postal votes and reformed the House of Lords and Civil Service. They will definitely be very busy when they get elected.

We might have an aging population but with the advent of AI we will need less and less young people because most people will need some form of government assistance.

Populist is too benign a word. What's going on in the US is not populist, we're way beyond that.

@ThePhantomoftheEcobubbleOpera as Ricky Gervais always says if you can't joke about horrendous things, then what is the point of jokes. It is clear that @Lonelydave is joking!!!!! Surely you can see that.

It doesn’t take a leap of faith to see how shops selling vapes, sweets and 160mg caffeinated energy drinks to 12-year-olds—shops ften under names like Candy and Vapes—could pose a serious risk to the stability of a peaceful town. Just a few weeks ago, the school sent an email warning that some vapes had been found laced with drugs. There are also growing concerns that these shops may be involved in money laundering. Are we witnessing a new form of county lines?

Yes, it may seem hysterical to you but to me I see something more sinister playing out here.

It's definitely a libdems policy. Not sure Davies has done a sky dive about it yet though.

Immigration isn't going anywhere as we have an ageing population. Or do people think we will turn away from capitalism?

I’m fairly sure that one of Reform’s policies is to switch to proportional representation

Seems in bad taste to joke about killing off MPs.

@MargoLivebetter PR would be fantastic, as would joined up thinking - but I agree not in our lifetimes!
I get frustrated because I have lived abroad mainly europe but some things are good and some are bad, but mainly because of a multitude of things they don't seem to get in the mess that we do.
French long distance trains, fantastic - but the commute into Paris nightmare, just like any other big city with people commuting in - some people live in cloud cuckoo land, some still in the 70's some still in the 50's
Firstly we need to make people responsible for their own actions, rather than shouting the most.
Secondly we need to really encourage community engagement - work from the ground up rather than all this shouty nonsense - all it is, is a political version of keeping up with the joneses!

I would suggest shooting them all (well perhaps a 20% cull every few years, like badgers) but I'm sure some badger supporting lot would then say i'm doing a misservice.....

Actually, many of us could, and can still, see their advantages of leaving the EU.

Immigration is only going to get worse as certain countries snd areas cannot sustain the amount of people living there. It needs addressing urgently- we need all the pressure we can muster and help anyone can provide to sort it out. It’s a ticking time bomb regarding way of life and resources.

Is he anti-abortion? I thought he said that there was a discussion to be had on termination deadlines in light of progress made in preserving premature babies.

And then it fell flat because nobody was interested and there's no appetite for it. But he isn't anti-abortion from a principle of disagreeing with the practice.

Personally, I think how things stand is fine. I absolutely don't think anyone should be rocking the boat because we seem to have arrived at a reasonable position without much politicisation.

I don’t understand why you’re confused tbh. I still think that Brexit was the correct decision in the long term. I would argue many on here decrying Brexit don’t actually understand the position.

On to the current rise of Reform, for many the massive increase in immigration, both legal and undocumented is destroying their community/way of life. People see their local and national culture being ignored in favour of an alien culture. People are coming here with no idea of the cultural expectations of the place they’re now living or just ignore it. Many people are coming from countries with very different views as to the position of women and the importance of religion. people are angry and feel threatened. If you went into the affected areas you would experience this.

it’s gone too far now for tinkering round the edges that the mainstream parties do.

Farage, whether you agree with him or not, is speaking the same language as those who are affected by the out of control immigration. We do need to stop focusing on helping incomers, we need to start focusing on British, home nations and local culture and traditions. People who want to live here need to show very real commitment to integration.

Until the immigration situation is sorted (and this is across the west where people are literally feeling under attack in their own homes) parties like Reform will continue to increase in popularity. I don’t agree with all their policies by any means. But to say you have no understanding of why they are so popular is to show a complete lack of understanding of the experience of many westerners , especially the poorest.

Isn't this the kind of thinking that allowed the UK to accidentally coast into Brexit though? The assumption that it'd never actually come to leaving the EU but that a good shake up and protest was called for?

I'm not anti the idea of distruptors across the board, but it's a dangerous game - nobody except his hard core supporters in the US really believed Trump would get in, did they - the first let alone the second time? That goes for other fringe extremists throughout history too...

No need to apologise @Lonelydave . I agree that there is lots wrong and our political system doesn't help. It is adversarial and every five years one side is pitted against the other. Personally, I think that we need proportional representation so that we have to work on compromises and joined up thinking and long-term strategies and policies, rather than the mad swings back and forth. However, that means turkeys voting for Christmas, so that probably won't happen in my lifetime!

I don’t understand how women can vote for Farage. He’s anti abortion.

He is also against DEI and women are the main recipients of DEI policies, it means our daughters have a chance of working in what is usually a male dominated job and there is more money spent to encourage girls into the STEM subjects. These will all go he doesn’t agree with DEI.

And thirdly the NHS he wants to privatise it similar to the US model where if you have a pre-existing condition (and looking at some of his followers on social media they do) those are excluded from care. And even if the lowest paid/on benefits don’t have to pay it will be the rest of us squeezed even more to pay for everyone else. I get private healthcare with my work but I don’t want to work forever.

Farage was also a huge supporter of Liz Truss and her trickle down economics which crashed the economy so that’s another reason not just limited to women. The poor will be poorer under Reform.

@MargoLivebetter it isn't just about what the tory council did, all parties are responsible, we need mature and sensible people - if there is a good idea by labour carry it through, these people are elected to represent their constituents, not to further their own political career. That is the problem, someone at university heads up their union, then leaves, goes for local council, the head office go oh thats got potential - never once seen the real world.
Road works as an example, it is cheaper for companies to delay active repair works and then state them as an emergency, comes out of a central fund thingy. Madness, get the water/electric/gas companies and traffic light people etc.., together - work together - but because umpteen previous governments/councils think differently we end up with gridlock.
Bus fares - all come from the same central big pool - therefore you buy a ticket its accepted anywhere
None of this is rocket science - it's called joined up thinking.
If it is cheaper to import something from China with all the shipping costs and sell it here, then apply the logic here, organised supply chain etc
What we have is a separation of everything in to the tiniest parts, with everyone taking their little bit.
NHS - their drugs cost a fortune and then need to be thrown away after discharge - really ? why? Whos name is on this stupid bit - we will never know because no one is held accountable. Ranting again! Sorry!

Based on what @Redflagsabounded has to say, I'm going to go with complete and utter shitshow.

It's selling off everything that wasn't nailed down and funnelling money to shareholders which has created a lot of economic problems, see trains, Thames water, utilities etc nothing invested in the service, deregulation so they can do whatever they want and fat cats getting rich.

We're a country run by the wealthy for the wealthy.

Misterinformation?

My personal opinion is people have voted reform as a wake up call to the other parties, all of whom need to get butts into gear, stop infighting and get working together

Really not sure reform will get anywhere ina general election

Yes I agree it was the Tories but people see Tories and Labour as a uni party now and don't think Labour would have done much different. Brexit was part of the problem in that the Tories didn't really want to do it (most mps of all parties were remainers) and made a complete hash of it. To my mind lockdown policies were much more to blame for the mess we're in, furlough schemes were the most generous and alot of people got used to not working or wfh so productivity has fallen while state spending has stayed high. Sooner or later the electorate including pensioners are going to have to have to face financial realities and stand on their own two feet but there will probably be a financial crash of some kind before this happens.

@Lonelydave I agree that local services have greatly diminished. So many local authorities are going bankrupt or are teetering on the edge. Many are only able to deliver the statutory requirements, so they won't be doing anything above and beyond what is set out in the legal framework to deliver. Many of them were Tory controlled for a very long time, which meant that council tax remained low, which on the one hand for those of us paying council tax is great, but on the other hand means that revenues have decreased year on year and so there is no money left in the pot. There is an element here of "you get what you pay for" and we aren't paying for the services that we used to.

I'm not sure dialogue is much good without there being any money to actually fund the improvements.

just been reading some of the posts here, and it's the lack of engagement from the authorities which is causing the issue, then some people say we have to do it ourselves, thus escalating the problem - the problem isn't someone setting up an illegal shop and making a quick buck, it's the council/authorities who are sitting on their arse, getting free lunches, and dealing with that is a 'difficult' area, much easier to fine someone for 2 minutes over parking, or puts their bin out too early.
The reform people, and indeed any one track pony set don't see the bigger picture, they only see what affects them, the last thing this country needs is to gone down the current one way street of my way is right so f off, engage, communicate and try to establish dialogue.

Who mentioned GBNews in this thread? I must have missed that.