AIBU to be utterly baffled at how many people are falling for Reform after the Brexit mess?

For me personally the benefit would be lower taxes. More generally, cutting the benefits bill, encouraging/forcing more people back into the workforce leading to increased economic productivity which like it or not is the best way of increasing wealth for the majority of the population (acknowledging yes some people would be worse off at least in the short term). The NHS is a joke and needs serious reform and I would not be against abolishing it in its current state. I’ve lived and worked in 7 different countries so I have quite a lot to compare to in terms of healthcare systems and in my opinion the NHS is right at the bottom of the barrel. I’m pro immigration but getting illegal immigration under control is absolutely necessary. I’m under no illusion that Reform could easily achieve any of that but at least the dial will start moving back in the right direction.

The WFA reversal was due to local elections so yeh it does impact policy. More than much else so far.

Trouble is it could happen in the UK, just like Trump was elected in the US. (and let’s not forget it was twice). Part of the issue in the U.K. is that a lot of people just don’t vote at all. Reform voters are rallied and motivated to make sure they put their Xs on ballot papers. In the recent local elections Reform won in one constituency close to us with a grand total of 17 people overall voting there.

On reform I think people just feel very lied to by the established parties and have developed a “fuck it, burn it all down” mindset. I’m not sure if they believe them or not but I think theres an air of “fuck it” about this whole thing

Yes, I agree with this but also, the electorate has had some control over Labour policy by supporting Reform. Without it's increasing popularity then we definitely wouldn't have seen a reversal of the wfa. Sometimes I wonder if people are just far more savvy than we give them credit for.

They are adding to the deficit at an alarming rate and unemployment has moved up after the NI tax rises. The UK is going to pay Mauritius to take the Chagos Islands (which they never owned) whilst chagosians have no right to return there.

I’m sorry but this is not competent at all, it’s a fucking mess.

On reform I think people just feel very lied to by the established parties and have developed a “fuck it, burn it all down” mindset. I’m not sure if they believe them or not but I think theres an air of “fuck it” about this whole thing.

Do you find comprehension or numbers tricky?

Yes, the YABU percentage is 31% which is just about around the general voting intention for Reform in most polls from the council elections onwards.

Try again 69% agree with her.

@thepariscrimefiles interestingly the intel I saw is that Reform have surged in areas with high child poverty (Financial Times, 9th June). To me that fits with the fact that they appeal to people who feel unrepresented and poor. Given that child poverty is expected to rise in the next 5 years, I can only think that this will increase Reform's appeal.

It's interesting that the YABU percentage is almost identical to the current voting intention for Reform. If the party is able to reflect this outcome among a cohort of predominantly woman, who so far have been less convinced about Farage, then they'll be flying at the Senedd l

I don't think people are "falling for" anything. This is the result you get when the public has such disillusion at the main parties they are desperate for anything else.

Traditional pathways haven't worked, it forces people to go to extremes.

It's a reflection of how so many are struggling with life. And it's not going to get better.

Reform supporters never answer this question. Their main drivers are being anti-immigration and 'stopping the boats', but their detailed immigration policies haven't been revealed. I think a lot of Reform voters would like to be able to shoot the immigrants arriving by boat, as if we were at war and these people are enemy combatants.

Apparently, the people who are the most anti-immigration and most distrustful of immigrants live in places with the lowest numbers of immigrants in the UK.

If we got a reform government they would get nothing done. I am pretty sure that the establishment (civil service, BoE, HoL) would run rings around them and it would be like watching them walking through treacle for 5 years.

I think that, in part is why Brexit has been crapper than it needed to be - those negotiating it didn't really believe in it. And of course it was the BoE which brought down Truss. There is a lot of power outside of the house of commons which probably isn't a bad thing on balance

This is an example of a conversation j had the other week. Again, full disclosure, I am not aligned to ANY party

“I’m terrified Reform will get in!”
”why?”
”well it just feels wrong?”
”what feels wrong about it?”
”just like we are going backwards”
”in what way? What are you terrified is going to happen?”
”mumble mumble, Farage, mumble mumble”
”which of Reform’s policies are you worried about in particular?”
them - blank face

Do you think that poster was ever a Labour voter? Seriously? She was always as likely to vote Labour as you are, you’re both cut from the same cloth.

It’ll be hard to say it’s only conservatives switching if Reform do well in Wales.

Maybe - but once again, she is no leader or statesman.

When I said pissed off earlier I meant this. Of course it’s linked to Labour and how they are perceived,

I think you’ll find a lot of people disagree with you. It’s fashionable, particularly among women ironically, to dismiss her as thick and gobby but anyone who’s seen her interviewed can see she’s a highly intelligent, straight talking, well informed politician.

You can go and look at them yourself. It’s not difficult. I’m not listing them out here and my take on them. I was making a point that people don’t even bother to read them before tearing a party down.
You’ve also made the mistake of assuming I am a reform voter. I’m not. I even said so in my post.

What I am saying is READ each parties key policies and decide who to vote for that way. If Reform policies aren’t for you, don’t vote for them. It really is that simple.

Why not have a try? Because we've already seen what happens when communities ignore red flags.
Laughing at people’s genuine concerns is exactly how past scandals — like the grooming cases — were allowed to fester. People raised the alarm, and they were mocked, dismissed, or accused of scaremongering.
I refuse to sit back and stay silent while young children in our town are being lured into certain shops or environments that don’t seem right. If something feels off, we should be able to speak up without being shut down.
If it turns out to be nothing — great. But if it's something more serious, and we ignored it? Then we’ll have another tragedy on our hands in a few years, asking how we let it happen again.
It’s about safeguarding, not judging. And it starts with taking local concerns seriously.

Laughable really. Talk about fishing and remember how Farage attended exactly 1 of the 42 fisheries committee meetings in the EU he was supposed to attend. He doesn’t care.

Oh and don’t think for one minute that calling Reform voters stupid and racist will make any difference. If anything, you’re just going to end up encouraging people to vote reform by doing that

@askmenow can you tell me more about how you think Reform will do better? I'm genuinely interested and not being snarky. I want to understand what you think they bring to the table.

I think we are going to have to disagree Rayner (thanks for pointing out my typo!) is never going to be admired as a leader or statesman. Yes, she has life experience but she is no deputy prime minister.

Would be interesting to see a list of their policies and your take on each of them - or anyone who’s a fan of Reform explaining them and why they’re good…