To think the school system is ridiculous

Sorry, and thanks for correcting.

Just a heads up for people posting here, the UK curriculum is under review and changes such as those suggested by the OP are on the table

The ENGLISH curriculum is up for review. Wales and Scotland have their own.

Just a heads up for people posting here, the UK curriculum is under review and changes such as those suggested by the OP are on the table - though there is a lack of clarity about what exactly is on the table as the latest I heard after being challenged, they started to talk about "small changes now, big changes as time goes on". It is being marketed as being "inclusive" for women, people of colour, LGBTQ+ but what has been suggested so far has been patronising, progressive anti academic, wanting to change history at whim without research. In relation to maths I have read comments along the lines of "maths was invented by white privileged men [it wasn't but they don't let facts get in the way of the narrative] and so why should we force children to accept that 2 plus 2 can't be 5 if they want it to be". The initial review of the changes to the curriculum was published not long ago, and the second part which reviews changes to subject matter is underway and due to be published in the Autumn

There are a group of posters on MN who argue very forcibly along the lines of the OP and it comes across almost like an agenda driven narrative, from a funded lobby group!

OP I think that the Irish curriculum sounds amazing and should be introduced into the UK. You think the opposite along with others and perhaps you are part of the group which thinks that education for normal people needs to be dumbed down for political reasons? I lived through the first phase of this decades ago - education was stopped at my school because it apparently stopped creativity - it was disastrous. Education opens doors and the higher the level of education is across the board, the better it is for each individual and the country as a whole.

You can have a good level of education and also be creative. You can have a good level of education and play computer games if you so wish, though teens can be negatively affected by screen time so it is probably best the violent ones are set aside until they are older.

I agree with @CushionNeck @Suflan – you are seeing criticism when it is not intended, or at any rate ramping it up. I cannot see where you have been called stupid, no one has said your colleagues have no qualifications, no one has said you know nothing about the curriculum.

I am sure you do know something about the curriculum.

But when you question how maths is ever used in jobs after school then I cannot agree. As I said, and as have others, I use maths on a daily in my creative role. I didn't take it for A level but that doesn't nean I don't use what I did learn in school.

You also question why we still study Shakespeare's plays – how about, because we are lucky enough in the UK to have arguably the greatest writer ever producing his work in this country? Plays that date back more than 400 years and yet are so relevant in their themes that they are still performed to sold-out houses today? Plays that. perhaps without knowing it, you probably quote every week. Plays that examine the human condition in so many ways. Yes they are not easy to read; but all the more reason to be happy when you get something out of one, when you watch it and enjoy it.

I don’t agree with very much of what you say (tho I do think it’s poor that teachers are forced to teach out of their subject) but you are entitled to say it. Just, some of your comments don’t paint you in the best light, unfortunately.

Btw teachers in state schools in England at least have to have PGCE. If they don’t, and they are teaching, it is in an unqualified teacher role. And yes, teaching ESL, and the qualifications needed to do so, is not the same as teaching in secondary. And yes again, of course teachers improve and develop their skills as they go through their career. Like most jobs really.

How did he manage getting A Levels, a degree in History and getting through minimum legal requirements for teaching with no GCSE in English or English Literature?

You are coming across now as having a bit of your chip on your shoulder. Value yourself and your work. I think you are seeing criticism where there is none. I am sure you do a great job and seem to care about your students. Other people’s view here don’t matter.

Which they did on the PGCE! Of course you only learn to teach when you start teaching which is at the start of your PGCE and throughout.

When I did my PGCE, after my first class degree in Education, and before my Master's and Doctorate in Education, I had to do extensive, Level 6 research into multiple topics, write four dissertation length essays, two group presentations on research findings, two individual presentations, one final submission, a publishable article, and my PDP, as well as participate in full time lectures and teaching practice.

Are you saying that throughout your degree and work experience, you've done academic research and in depth analysis of curricula, pedagogy, theory, development, international pedagogy, metacognition, teaching and learning, and much more?

If not, why are you attempting to critique the English curriculum, in such a way that the things you're suggesting are really bizarre? It's just a strange thing to do. I wouldn't work as a nurse and start to critique a brain surgeon in the operating theatre and the biology of the brain.

I never said you didn’t know anything about the curriculum.

The vast majority of teachers in the UK have a PGCE and those that don’t are still qualified teachers (or in training). My point stands that
ESL teaching is very different. Of course teachers continue to develop once they actually start teaching. Training is meant to give them a strong foundation to begin that journey from, which is the same as general mandatory education really.

Although the teaches in Ireland teaching leaving cert now have to have a primary degree and a 2 year m.ed.

Look OP, I don’t want to add to the pile on, but ESL teaching is not the same as getting a PGCE and teaching the curriculum you’re critiquing here. It’s a bit disingenuous to try and equate the two.

The poster said you don’t need educational quals. You have posted a lot of views about education, which you are entitled to hold. You said you work in a school. But if you are not a teacher, then you don’t have a PGCE, so your knowledge of educational pedagogy may be limited.

The poster never said you don’t need qualifications. I don’t think they were rude. I think a lot of your posts show a limited understanding of the topics you are discussing tbh. That’s fine too. But no one has implied you are stupid. As far as I have seen anyway.

Please point out where I called you stupid. I'll wait.

deleted double post sorry

I agree that teachers across the UK are teaching subjects where they do not have qualifications and that is not a good thing.

I am not sure what "a relevant degree" means in your school, but it doesn't necessarily mean a candidate has any educational quals or knowledge of pedagogy. Does your school employ only people with degrees in education? I doubt that bc that is not a very commonly taken degree, unless planning to teach primary. A degree in history (or maths!) is not as such an educational qualification.

I think you may have misinterpreted what the poster was saying. They were not calling you stupid. They were merely pointing out that typically, a role like yours does not require specific quals in education (whereas a teaching role does). I imagine they were referencing PGCE or masters in education. Those quals are not usually required for pastoral or welfare roles in schools.

That kind of maths is very important in a lot of important careers

A teacher came on here and said that everyone working in student welfare : are uneducated, have no qualifications, and know nothing about education.

That's not what they said tho @Suflan

They said educational quals were not needed for a student welfare role. Thats certainly true in my area; I know and have known numerous school staff in pastoral and welfare roles who had no specific educational qualifications. That doesn’t mean they were uneducated; but tho if course entitled to their view, they were not the best people to lecture teachers about the education system and how to teach. Not that they did IME.

I’ve not read the full thread but you have made some sweeping statements. As others have said, maths is so useful. I use it every day in my (creative, word-based) working role.

The practical apart of it is fine, easy to get the hours in.

However, who knew the theory was going to contain algebra?

I completely agree with you.