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To think I’m not the toxic person in this situation?

93 replies

WartFace · 09/06/2025 16:08

I’ve posted on this already, under a misleading title. Many apologies. If you’re still interested …

I have known for years that my BiL was not an easy person. He and my sister met at a very traumatic time in our family history and were engaged very quickly. I’ve always felt uncomfortable around him. I’ve told myself it’s envy and other unworthy things. She and I haven’t seen much of each other over the years but I thought we were close.

Nearly 2 years ago he did something that I felt was disrespectful and contemptuous towards me. Regrettably, I made a nasty comment to her on WhatsApp. I know I should have tackled him directly.
She described herself as devastated and when I rang to apologize she told me that I’d insinuated things I absolutely hadn’t even thought. The row went on for weeks. I honestly think I was trying to defend myself against false accusations but she took everything as an attack.

We were NC for some months until I dipped a toe back in the water. She responded very nicely, only stipulating that the past must never again be mentioned.

I apologized repeatedly for my words. She thinks she apologized for hers, but it was very much ‘You made me say it’. She’s never accepted my apologies in so many words. ‘I’m sorry’ was met by silence.

I’ve since heard stories about my BiL from my daughters and DiL that make me think he’s a narcissist or at least a genuine creep. My sister was so horrible and unforgiving and seems to have forgotten that now.

I think he’s a narcissist and she’s absolutely in thrall to him. Or maybe she’s right and I’ve always been the problem? I’m not sure which would be worse tbh.

Thank you, you’re a kind and patient bunch xx

OP posts:
WartFace · 09/06/2025 17:54

Eagle2025 · 09/06/2025 17:51

What is it that makes you think your a narcissist?

It’s one of the things my sister said to me.

OP posts:
WartFace · 09/06/2025 17:53

Spirallingdownwards · 09/06/2025 17:49

She may not have been vulnerable though. She may have made an active choice to be with him. This is an example of something you should never voice to her (even if it is what you believe).

Oh god, I’ve never said anything bad about him or their relationship to her. She’s told me some hair raising stuff and I haven’t passed comment.

OP posts:
Eagle2025 · 09/06/2025 17:51

WartFace · 09/06/2025 17:37

Thank you. It haunts me X

What is it that makes you think your a narcissist?

Spirallingdownwards · 09/06/2025 17:49

WartFace · 09/06/2025 17:45

You’re right. Nothing controversial has been said for months and nothing will be. I’m sad that she has been taken over by this awful man but I can see that she was always vulnerable.

She may not have been vulnerable though. She may have made an active choice to be with him. This is an example of something you should never voice to her (even if it is what you believe).

lnks · 09/06/2025 17:48

This reply has been deleted

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WartFace · 09/06/2025 17:48

Macklemup · 09/06/2025 17:39

OP, reflect on how your sister makes you feel.
We don't have to see people whom we don't feel we have a positive relationship with.

Its ok to drop the rope, say nothing and just live our lives without the upset and drama they bring to it, intentionally or not.

Its ok to decide that you don't want to be around the negative emotions they dredge up in you, again, intentionally or not.

Choose you.
Choose peace.

Wishing you well.

Thank you. That really makes up for the nasty comments X

OP posts:
WartFace · 09/06/2025 17:46

Nosetotoe · 09/06/2025 17:44

I think you’re spiralling

Ca you tell me exactly what you mean by that?

OP posts:
WartFace · 09/06/2025 17:45

Spirallingdownwards · 09/06/2025 17:40

My advice remains the same as before.

This is her long term DH/Partner/person she loves.

She does not view him the same way you do so persisting along these lines does nothing but alienate yourself from her.

You have to accept she does not view him that way and therefore if you want to have a relationship with her you just simply need to let that go and not mention anything to do with him to her. If she brings him up just ignore or smile and change the subject, for your own sanity.

You’re right. Nothing controversial has been said for months and nothing will be. I’m sad that she has been taken over by this awful man but I can see that she was always vulnerable.

OP posts:
Nosetotoe · 09/06/2025 17:44

WartFace · 09/06/2025 17:42

I have stopped drinking. Or do you think you know better than I I do?

I can see that if you think I’m lying about my drinking, I’m probably lying about everything. But I’m not. You’re determined to disbelieve me and that’s ok as you don’t know me.

I think you’re spiralling

WartFace · 09/06/2025 17:42

Nosetotoe · 09/06/2025 17:40

Many of us do agree with you that you are “the bad guy”

but then you get defensive and say you’re not

We are feeding someone who is drinking. OP, it is very apparent

I have stopped drinking. Or do you think you know better than I I do?

I can see that if you think I’m lying about my drinking, I’m probably lying about everything. But I’m not. You’re determined to disbelieve me and that’s ok as you don’t know me.

OP posts:
Spirallingdownwards · 09/06/2025 17:40

My advice remains the same as before.

This is her long term DH/Partner/person she loves.

She does not view him the same way you do so persisting along these lines does nothing but alienate yourself from her.

You have to accept she does not view him that way and therefore if you want to have a relationship with her you just simply need to let that go and not mention anything to do with him to her. If she brings him up just ignore or smile and change the subject, for your own sanity.

Nosetotoe · 09/06/2025 17:40

WartFace · 09/06/2025 17:36

I don’t think I’ve been furious (except when called a liar, which I’m not, but it does hurt to think you’re toxic and nasty.

Many of us do agree with you that you are “the bad guy”

but then you get defensive and say you’re not

We are feeding someone who is drinking. OP, it is very apparent

Macklemup · 09/06/2025 17:39

OP, reflect on how your sister makes you feel.
We don't have to see people whom we don't feel we have a positive relationship with.

Its ok to drop the rope, say nothing and just live our lives without the upset and drama they bring to it, intentionally or not.

Its ok to decide that you don't want to be around the negative emotions they dredge up in you, again, intentionally or not.

Choose you.
Choose peace.

Wishing you well.

MrTiddlesTheCat · 09/06/2025 17:38

Your behaviour is toxic. You're nuturing a two year grudge about an argument you started. I said it on your other thread, you hit (verbally) your sister first and are now playing the victim because she retaliated harder. You reap what you sow and you sowed spite so got it back in droves.

WartFace · 09/06/2025 17:37

bookinglooking · 09/06/2025 17:31

Broadly I would say that if you are worried you are a narcissist you are unlikely to be one

Thank you. It haunts me X

OP posts:
WartFace · 09/06/2025 17:36

Nosetotoe · 09/06/2025 17:30

But when we agree with you that you probably are… well, hell hath no fury!!

I don’t think I’ve been furious (except when called a liar, which I’m not, but it does hurt to think you’re toxic and nasty.

OP posts:
feelingbleh · 09/06/2025 17:34

You're the problem.

bookinglooking · 09/06/2025 17:31

Broadly I would say that if you are worried you are a narcissist you are unlikely to be one

WartFace · 09/06/2025 17:31

HatesHorsesLovesShein · 09/06/2025 17:27

Maybe she isn’t sorry and that’s why she hasn’t said she is. Perhaps she said that she didn’t want to talk about it ever was her way of being able to move past what you said, but she doesn’t feel regretful about what she said in response.

I think you have to decide if you want to let this go and continue to have a relationship or not let it go and not have a relationship with her.

And frankly, it doesn’t sound like you can let what happened go.

If she doesn’t feel regretful about what she says, she presumably doesn’t care much about my well being. If so, I don’t think I want her to be part of my life.

I felt awful about what I said because it hurt her and I care about her. She seemed more interested in punishing me and she knew just where to put the knife in.

OP posts:
Nosetotoe · 09/06/2025 17:30

WartFace · 09/06/2025 17:26

Yes, as I’ve said I worry all the time that I’m the bad guy.

Her side of the story would have to include that she lied to me about why he’d dropped the ball and also that after two glasses of red wine her sister sent one message that said ‘Is this still you talking or is it your OH?’ That would be the literal truth.

But when we agree with you that you probably are… well, hell hath no fury!!

HatesHorsesLovesShein · 09/06/2025 17:27

Maybe she isn’t sorry and that’s why she hasn’t said she is. Perhaps she said that she didn’t want to talk about it ever was her way of being able to move past what you said, but she doesn’t feel regretful about what she said in response.

I think you have to decide if you want to let this go and continue to have a relationship or not let it go and not have a relationship with her.

And frankly, it doesn’t sound like you can let what happened go.

WartFace · 09/06/2025 17:26

ConversationsWithFrenemies · 09/06/2025 17:20

Then I think you should have some therapy and thrash things out there, where the only object is for you to understand yourself and formulate a way of moving forward with your family relationships. No therapist can reassure you that you're not 'as awful as you worry that you are', but they'd be up for teasing out why this is the point you seem to keep coming back to, as if you wish some umpire or referee could come in and declare authoritatively that either they're 'toxic' or you're 'awful'. Is the reason you want to be assured that they're the bad guys because you're worried that, if they're not, you're the bad guy?

Of course you're only giving your side of the story -- that is the only one you can give. But presumably you're aware of the possibility of another side, where your sister might say 'My sister got angry about my husband dropping the ball on the sale of our flat, I defended him and she responded with a barrage of drunk criticism so spiteful and vicious that even after she apologised, I couldn't bring myself to forgive her for months. Now she wants to talk it all through, but I can't bear to think about any of it, as she clearly hates and despises my husband, and there's no getting past that'?

Yes, as I’ve said I worry all the time that I’m the bad guy.

Her side of the story would have to include that she lied to me about why he’d dropped the ball and also that after two glasses of red wine her sister sent one message that said ‘Is this still you talking or is it your OH?’ That would be the literal truth.

OP posts:
ConversationsWithFrenemies · 09/06/2025 17:20

WartFace · 09/06/2025 17:09

Thank you again for reading my posts carefully and for your well intentioned advice. I’ve stopped drinking (months ago) and have certainly stopped having arguments with anyone.

All I wanted was possible reassurance that I’m not as awful as I worry that I am. I posted in entirely good faith. One person validated my experience and I’m deeply grateful for that.

I’ve been accused of lying and only giving one side of my story. I know the truth and it doesn’t matter to me if strangers think they know better. I’m not going to try and justify myself any more. I’ll be grateful for any genuinely helpful and compassionate advice.

Then I think you should have some therapy and thrash things out there, where the only object is for you to understand yourself and formulate a way of moving forward with your family relationships. No therapist can reassure you that you're not 'as awful as you worry that you are', but they'd be up for teasing out why this is the point you seem to keep coming back to, as if you wish some umpire or referee could come in and declare authoritatively that either they're 'toxic' or you're 'awful'. Is the reason you want to be assured that they're the bad guys because you're worried that, if they're not, you're the bad guy?

Of course you're only giving your side of the story -- that is the only one you can give. But presumably you're aware of the possibility of another side, where your sister might say 'My sister got angry about my husband dropping the ball on the sale of our flat, I defended him and she responded with a barrage of drunk criticism so spiteful and vicious that even after she apologised, I couldn't bring myself to forgive her for months. Now she wants to talk it all through, but I can't bear to think about any of it, as she clearly hates and despises my husband, and there's no getting past that'?

CaptainFuture · 09/06/2025 17:16

TheNightSurgeon · 09/06/2025 16:53

That poster said they didn't believe you, that's not gaslighting.

Agree and is gaslighting not a sustained campaign to basically fuck with someone's mind? Not an innocuous, one off and truthful comment!

CopperWhite · 09/06/2025 17:14

Read some of your OP back to yourself.

I apologized repeatedly for my words. She thinks she apologized for hers, but it was very much ‘You made me say it’. She’s never accepted my apologies in so many words. ‘I’m sorry’ was met by silence.

So she believes she has apologised but that you started it and that she wouldn’t have said what she did without provocation from you. There’s nothing wrong with that. How else is she supposed to accept your apology except by moving on and not talking about the argument again? You sound like you want more from her than you can fairly expect.

I’ve since heard stories about my BiL from my daughters and DiL that make me think he’s a narcissist or at least a genuine creep.

How is this related to the previous paragraph about your sisters apology? It has nothing to do with your relationship with your sister. You don’t have to like your BIL, but you have to accept that your sister does. Or, you can choose to stay away from both of them.

My sister was so horrible and unforgiving and seems to have forgotten that now.

But you were horrible too. Why did you get in contact and apologise if you don’t want to forget about it? Again, you seem to be expecting more than you deserve