Manager asking me to attend a meeting tomorrow when I’m not working tomorrow

Ok sounds like a yes to me, though it depends on the exact wording of OP’s original email.

It does sound like a strange organisation if you are that sure you will never be sacked.

Are you in the NHS where they need to sort out rotas two months in advance hence the restrictions?

anyway, as an aside, I’m so glad that there are some children who are not in the care system because of kinship carers like you.

"Ok" is a yes. The only issue is it not being on any absence system, if that even exists for OP (which we don't know).

He never said yes either though, did he?

I would have taken OK as confirmation too.
Manager has fucked up and knows it, hence his repeatedly contacting the Op on her day off to try and persuade her to change her plans. She has an email with his agreement that she attends this officially run day as part of her responsibility as a foster carer.

If you felt sorry for manager you could reiterate - can't come, my fostering meeting is mandatory but is there any thing I can help prepare /docs I can send/info you need reviewed before the meeting? And get in there and control the narrative - are you scheduled for the meeting, can you send a 'not attending message ' in advance, or a summary of your input /any docs needed to the chair ? Don't let your manager make you out as flaky or 'the problem' when you are not there.

I would also raise the issue of scheduling /2 months notice and your foster duties with HR and more generally - go in softly, because you are feeling caught in a bind between essential fostering arrangements and work scheduling and wonder if there's a better way to arrange things so you are fulfilling both duties.

Not sure why you'd be expecting this to be a bonus day off?
Depends on the employer, lots offer some additional time off for foster carers, especially within the first year of placement. Still needs to be logged properly but OP realised that now.

Ok is yes, but I would still expect you to have then applied for it as holiday. As a manager I'd have assumed you were telling me because it was shorter notice than standard, to which he said ok. But you wouldn't get through day off 'for free ', so you'd then put in for holiday.

You didn't, so it isn't in the system anywhere that you'd be off today.

Not sure why you'd be expecting this to be a bonus day off? I get that you 'have to go', but this is nothing to do with your job or employer, so you need to take it out of annual leave

Appreciate you may need to go for support with something specific, but could you check the agenda and attend part of the day to support your manager, so just skip any networking, celebrate foster carers and other fluffy bits. If you're worried about missing bits with that approach, can you ask the council to send you the training materials from the foster conference? These sort of conferences are likely annual but the local authority needs to help any new foster care in the interim, so you should still be able to access resources.

Or he replied "Ok" to the info for that one too, didnt prepare and has now realised that he is going into an important meeting without the OP who he was relying on to do the work for him.

Lets face it, which one is more likely?!

Also what is the work meeting about tomorrow because for a manager to ring on a day off/the weekend, it may be something very important like an announcement is going to be made?

Totally right. 1 day us usually something like this or a kids sports day, a hosue viewing, car maintenance, a last minute boob job cancellation... those kinda things you don't know about 2 months in advance.

Absolutely wild to ask people to be ok with that. I wonder if it's in your contract or something you get told after you join...

Two months notice for one day of holiday leave is ridiculous. I'd argue that's an unfair contract term.

Yeah the 2 month thing for 1 day seems wild. We have a loose 2 week rule for anything over 2 days and a loose 1 month rule for anything over 1 week but for 1 day 2 month notice is absolutely insane

The ignorance some people have around fostering.....

A conference in this context is not the same a work conference, which we all know is a bit of skive with a free dinner thrown in. It can be anything from seeing how things are going in their fostering arrangement right up to a full on formal meeting due to serious issues/allegations arising. I good friend of mine is is fostering a her step grandson (sort of....child of her childs former partner) and the birth parent has made several allegations or demands that all need to be looked into. There are investigations, then a case conference then another because the birth parent doesnt agree with the outcome.... it goes on. Or it can be more low key open to all fosterers thing, about changes in the way the fostering is being overseen or somesuch. Point is, not attending any of these things WILL put a black mark against the OP's name and put those children at risk of losing their stable home.

Its just as important as taking a child with a chronic condition to their medical appointments.

I would be putting a hard stop to the messaging out of hours @PondAndSea Not on. He forgot, he sorted a meeting and I cant help wondering if he will be out of his depth without you there. In my experience of this sort of thing (happened alot when I was in management) the ones who got the most pissed off about missed meetings where the ones who were shit at their jobs and were expecting others to carry them.

Honestly so funny seeing how different people are. If I need to be off for something important, I’m taking it. I’d never work for a company that made me feel like my life wasn’t the priority over the needs of the company. I’m being paid to do a job, and I do it well, but my life is more important than the job. People thinking she should be chasing her manager up after he’s consented, begging politely for a day off, or refuse to attend an important meeting is so alien to me. Her manager messed up, he’s agreed, she has the email to prove it.

Also OP has he said/ do you know what this meeting is about?

Well two things strike me as unreasonable here:

1. Your company claiming they need 2 months notice for taking annual leave. I can see that being the case if you want to book a week or a fortnight, but for one day? Come on! Surely it's not that uncommon for people to need to take the odd day off at shorter notice.
2. Your manager is ringing you today, Sunday, to attend a meeting tomorrow. Smacks of bad planning on his part.

Sorry but there is a usual process and approval system. OP had to request out of that because of the 2 month rule. So really should have followed up and made sure/put a reminder in his diary. Anything outside of the usual approval you should absolutely make sure they know/ remember.

He's being unreasonable because he did say OK and has clearly forgotten. He's unreasonable to get so mad about it.

You're a bit unreasonable
He's a bit unreasonable
Everyone's being unreasonable!

At this stage just reply
Sorry X there has clearly been some miscommunication/crossed wires here. I cannot not attend now since it's tomorrow. Therefore I will be back at my desk Tuesday and happy to be filled in on the meeting then.
Maybe we can also put in a system for these appointments going forward that works for us both so we avoid this in the future

YABU if you didn’t check that you could definitely have the time off or if you didn’t request it as annual leave.

I agree. If she’s communicating so poorly with work it’s not surprising there’s been issues.

It seems strange the conference date was only released 3 weeks prior. Could this fall under parental leave maybe? It is mandatory you attend as part of the fostering agreement.
I guess it all comes down to your organisational policies.

Yes fair enough – I suppose I retract my question and instead ask whether OP has made it clear to her manager why it’s an essential she attends. Unfortunately employers are under no obligation to give leave when it’s requested so if OP has requested leave outside of the standard policy, there would need to be a good reason, I would imagine.

ETA: not sure why it cleared the quote but this was in reply to @ReadingSoManyThreads

Very much our business when she's asking us if she's being unreasonable or not.

@PondAndSea it's wonderful that you are so committed to your fostering journey that you want to attend. But no you don't have to attend the fostering conference, it would be great if you could as you'll probably have some great development opportunities but they are not mandatory. I would say if it had been a child specific meeting - for example fostering panel, if it's still in proceedings a court hearing, potentially even a PeP or CiC review maybe you'd be right. But a conference is a great development and training opportunity but it is not mandatory - your supervising social worker shouldn't be putting you under pressure to attend if it's putting you in difficulties at work and they should also be able to support you find developments opportunities outside of your working time - particularly as a connected carer.

Imo you should have followed up with an email to your manager asking for the day off. E.g. if you had a medical appt for that day, surely you would follow up and the manager has to respond without citing the company policy that you need to give two months notice?

Failing that if you have an urgent meeting that you need to go to, then you will have to take a sick leave day and have that on your record?

No it isn’t. She told her manager she needed the day off. He said “ok”. If he didn’t mean that because he was too busy or didn’t like how she phrased it then he’s an idiot. But he’s responsible for his side if any communication. If he wanted the OP to do anything else (eg let the team know, book it through the AL system etc) he should have said that. It’s for him to manage his emails and calendar, and not the OPs responsibility to manage or second guess her manager.