To think there’s a real crisis in men being able to express how they truly feel about life and society?

Chiming in too, to say yes - that statistic about male suicide is often taken out of context and people fail to mention that women attempt it more.

They are just less “successful” for want of a better word due to their chosen methods.

Absolutely agree with this! I think men are more likely to seek role models than women. And if their own fathers are absent or useless, they look for them elsewhere. If there’s nobody available in their extended family or community, they will look to celebrities. I’ve known many men when they were younger absolutely idolise their male role models. Problem is now, male role models are people like Andrew Fucking Tate. Doesn’t help at all

Men also need to understand that while women are “allowed” to express emotions more freely, they are also generally taught from a very young age to recognise others emotions, to comfort others and to prioritise other peoples feelings above their own. I’ve seen this in action as a mother. It’s not so much that females are encouraged to be emotionally open and healthy in themselves, they learn because there is an expectation that they will provide emotional support for other people and in the long game, be able to nurture their children and connect with them emotionally. We are socially conditioned this way and it’s a double edged sword. We are judged more harshly for expressing anger, for being selfish, for not sharing/ including peers, for not recognising others emotions, and providing support. Females in the same profession as males such as doctors are more likely to be criticised for not showing empathy/ compassion. Women are judged extremely harshly if they don’t adhere to a precise emotional script particularly when it comes to their children. Men do not get this in the same way. If a woman says she cannot form a bond with her own baby, she may well end up under psychiatric treatment. If a man says this? Completely different story.

I think it's also important to disentangle "men aren't telling us what their issues are" and "I don't like the implications of what they are saying".

For example: dating apps & general modern sexual culture - it is well known that "sexual freedom" has led to an imbalanced dating market with hot guys sleeping with multiple women casually while most get nothing.

In the past when women had fewer options and consensus was to get married before sleeping together, more young men were able to settle down with a wife and make a life.

Obviously this came with some side effects, like shame for women who had sex outside of marriage, or being trapped in abusive relationships, or being pressured to marry etc.

But there's this dynamic where men will say - usually via some ironic meme rather than a confession in therapy - that they long for the world where you could be pretty confident you'd find a wife and have a nice life in the suburbs! And the response will either be (1) "so you want to bring back forced marriages" or (2) blank silence and "why won't men talk about their issues" - because we just refuse to acknowledge what was lost because we value too much what we gained

Why do you say he was ignorant when he was expressing awareness in his poetry?

I just find too many men self absorbed and uncaring of women’s issues really. Women are the opposite - can you imagine a male focused forum trying to start a compassionate thread about loneliness and the stigma some childfree and/ or single women face over a certain age? It’s all “teehee look at the cat lady” and “ who will look after them in their nursing home” - that’ll teach them to reject men who don’t give them the bare minimum!

I remember online dating while spending a long weekend in a foreign city a while back. I was asking this guy who asked me out for coffee a few questions. Nothing major - I didn’t ask for his second name or NI number! Just wanted to know how long he had been in the city for and a few other things.

He questioned why I asked so many questions. He said he didn’t require all that info from me.

I said but can’t you see it’s different for a woman? We are more vulnerable than men when meeting a stranger of the opposite sex.

He argued with me at length that wasn’t the case. And the country we were in had robust sentences for sex offenders so apparently that meant there was no issue for women anymore?! 🙄 I tried explaining it to him over and over again of the additional risks women face in the dating world let alone online dating but he just couldn’t get seem to get it.

In the end I just cancelled the date. He wasn’t necessarily being deliberately obnoxious but it was scary that he couldn’t comprehend or acknowledge women are more vulnerable in certain situations.

He’s probably the type of man who would hear a noise downstairs in the middle of the night and ask his wife to go check it out. But he’ll suddenly know what a woman’s job is when it comes to cooking and cleaning 👀

I couldn’t deal with that level of stupidity and selfishness.

I think this is a massive pile of bullshit sorry. You’re completely absolving men of any agency in solving their own problems, and placing all the responsibility on women who apparently mustn’t even criticise men who murder lest it hurts the feelings of men who don’t.

Hmm, it’s like a different part of the brain that can express that. Ex partner was a poet so wrote the most incredibly poignant pieces about love and the human condition, yet was completely ignorant to the reality of his own. Perhaps that’s ego getting in the way

This would be such an appropriate subject for Dadsnet.

Why don't men start groups and clubs to combat male loneliness and encourage emotional honesty the way women have, given they have all the money, power and often don't need childcare?

The vast majority of art, poetry and music has been created by men. It doesn’t seem like it’s always been true that men have problems talking about their emotions. Wordsworth wrote a vast long poem about them. I’m not sure when things changed, maybe late 19th century/imperialism, or twentieth century/mechanisation? Either way, it was at a period when men dominated government and that’s still the case, so I do think it’s up to them to solve, frankly.

So...what about the men who have never killed their partners? I'm guessing you think they're tickety-boo and don't need to talk about anything?

Second this. I've read this cited a number of times.

Less violent methods tend to fail. This therefore doesn't reflect the extent of the issue across genders.

I agree ref a quick scroll on SMedia.

I use YouTube mostly and very rarely FB. The public forum / debates are endlessly flooded with horrible, often scary comments from men. Usually misogynistic and giving a platform to thousands ion thousands possibly hiding parts of that view from the women in their life.

I see no fear or reluctance to express this stuff.

I currently have a male teen going on about ' Karen s' and think, what hope is there. The internet is flooded with it.

Mens feelings really are not the big scary elephant in the room atm.

With a little correction there.
Men die much more often because the way they try to commit suicide is more violent. Therefore it works much more often than women.
But women attempt suicide more often than men.

Which actually points towards more MH issues in women.
(Not that it negates the issues with NH in men btw!!)

I constantly see and hear men’s voices and opinions all over the internet. Most of the things they say, particularly about women, are pretty disgusting. I have an amazing husband who is able to effectively communicate his feelings, we’ve been together many years, since way before all this harmful, misogynistic online stuff started and I’m grateful for him every day. If he left I’d rather be alone than take my chances with the kind of men I regularly see spouting off about women’s “market value declining” after 25 etc.

Agree. My otherwise “gentle, feminist” ex-partner was absolutely triggered whenever his son was having a fallout with my daughter - honing in on her to tell her off for whatever his son was doing?! FFS. And his son was extremely bossy and belligerent, moody at 5. It made me think there really is no hope of things changing any time soon, and that it’s almost impossible to trust a man not to have frightening hidden triggers

Meant I agreed with a PP talking about this not changing anytime soon as the fathers see the sons as an extension of themselves and are blind to this

Also follow childfree women over 30 on Instagram and you’ll see random males - (sometimes with women /wives/daughters in their profile pics) trolling them with terrible abuse when they post a holiday reel or a picture of a girls brunch etc.

They seem incredibly angry that some women have chosen not to have children - whether it’s because they don’t want children or they haven’t found a suitable partner yet.

They also troll single mothers. Go figure.

And yes as pp have said- anger is an emotion too.

The loss of rootedness - in relationships, work, purpose - is massive and when men voice that loss clumsily or through anger, it gets written off or ridiculed. But you’re right… if people feel they have no meaningful place in society, that’s not just an individual crisis - it’s a collective one. Creating space for honest reflection on that - without defaulting to either mockery or martyrdom - feels like an important step.

I agree.
But at the same time, are men, as a group, able to express those issues? Ate tgey able to do so wo gettimg angry or putting the blame on someone else (usually women)?

I think a big part of the issue is frim the fact women role/script has changed. A lot. Theyre independent p, esp financially. Tgey aren’t worried anymore about ‘going alone’. And they still have a network of friends around them. Somethimg essential as we’re going towards a society where more and more people are single. (Well the majority).
By contrast, men’s role/script has remained static. Some changes but not so much. They’re still the provider, Notbthe caring one. They still exiect women to carry the emotional Labour in the rejationship. Theyre not that great at having a network of friends around them. These men are going to struggle so much more as we head towards a society where most if them are single….

The answer to that though can’t be anger and blame. And I dint think they’ve done much of the work needed to understand what’s going on. Maybe in alert because it’s asking them to take on roles agd work they haven’t done before. And those (like being the emotional care taker) aren’t valued. So I suspect there’s a resistance there too.

I struggle here... (I'm a bloke 🙋)
I despair of my fellow men sometimes, because of attitudes and behaviour which appal me.
But I also know many men are really struggling.
In the UK, suicide is the leading cause of death for men under 50. Recent data shows that over 75% of all suicide deaths are male, with rates particularly high among middle-aged men. Men are starting to support each other better, but many struggle.
And apologies for the ones who are arseholes - we don't like them either.

Men and fathers need to be the change for their sons. That's the starting point. But they can't do it often because their sons are extensions of themselves and they are internally conditioned.

I don't think this is going to change anytime soon. Hasn't it always been this way from what we understand of history and evolution.