To think there’s a real crisis in men being able to express how they truly feel about life and society?

Well, I guess the general increase and prevalence of encouragement for men to do so is a positive response to need, which personally I welcome. It's a pity that you "don't care"; the us/them attitude is really not good for anyone, imho.

Again this is just MRA propaganda.
There's equal amount of men and women. There are lots and lots and lots of women swiping yes on not the "hot guys".

If men are struggling on dating apps they can go to the gym, work on their skincare routine, dress well and write something interesting. Like women do.

My husband works in a male dominated field, he has lots of singles colleagues who moan that they can't get women, he points out that a)they don't really like women b) they have nothing to offer women and c)their expectations of women they will find attractive are way too high. Your incredibly naive to think that men have a good grasp of their league

Without doubt, ALL of the women I know would absolutely want the men around them to allow themselves to be vulnerable. I don’t know any women that would say differently.

On a personal note, what I won’t tolerate is the men in my life assuming that their feelings are valid, should be front and centre and we should all tip toe around them, when at the same time, my feelings are viewed by the same man as invalid, neurotic and over the top. Yes STBXH - I’m talking to you!! Your feelings don’t give you a licence to be verbally and emotionally abusive.

More women than men attempt suicide but women think about who will find the body and choose less violent methods.

I’ve seen that described as “attention seeking” by men online.

I don’t actually care about the “male loneliness epidemic”. They seem to think that women pop out to coffee with their girl chums and discuss which antidepressant they’re on and have a bit of lighthearted chitchat about their suicidal ideation. Because of course women find it easier to open up and have loads of people willing to listen. They don’t. They struggle on, just as alone as men, with the added burden of looking after the family’s mental needs because women are “nuturing”.

nobody’s out here setting up “Mandy’s clubs” for women to talk are they? I’ve never seen a poster encouraging women to talk about their feelings. Hundreds for men though.

Yup. If you want to find out men's experience of emotional support, go and look on a football/rugby/woodworking/guitar/etc forum instead, basically anywhere that's centred around an activity that a lot of men join in on. There's usually a non-public area where members can talk without announcing it all over Google.

But, as I said before, it seems there has to be a bond based around an activity for them to feel safe.

Exactly. OP, this is the wrong forum for this discussion.

But those groups do exist and men are often part of them.

Let's be honest, most men post children keep their hobbies and women give them up. So many relationships the man is still out cycling or golfing with his mates on a Saturday morning, and men continue to go on nights out. Its only fairly recently that we are seeing a more equal split of free time, and not in every relationship

Where is the narrative that men don't have groups or friends and women do coming from?

My local football club has about 20 mens teams, and one womens. My workplace has a men's mental health group, no womens. There are plenty of groups and communities for men, and many men access them. And women are often more welcoming to men in their communities than men are to women.

The interesting part of that, though, is the relative agency. The women who're upset about picking the hot guys and then being ghosted after a one-nighter have the option of making better choices; that 90% of men who are rejected can't really do anything else to optimise their chances beyond outright lying on their profile.

100% @ntmdino you expressed it better than I did!

I think it's two sides of the same coin - a small minority of men (the "hot guys") can have their pick of women, but they'll only date them casually and throw them back in the pool.

(Source: I have comforted a number of female friends through that particular heartbreak!)

Anyway, then for the other 90% of men, yeah, there is a sea of them and they desperately try to get anyone to even reply to their messages let alone go on a date.

That's precisely the point, I think. Men, largely-speaking, don't bond by sitting in a circle talking about their emotions. They bond through shared activity - team sports, making things together etc. That's why Men's Sheds (and similar organisations) exist. I have a couple of friends who run one, and they say that while the guys often show up with a project in mind or with something they want to learn, eventually they start showing up just to be around other people who've been drawn there by similar experiences...once the bond is formed, the environment itself becomes the shared experience, and they start opening up.

But it seems there often needs to be some kind of shared purpose to draw them together.

I think that men essentially expect support from others, and women often don't. And this means they process and rationalise their emotions differently. Many men get angry and become more distressed when they don't receive the level of support they expect

Another part of my job is carrying out surgical procedures under local. Men will again immediately make it known if they are in pain, or discomfort, usually by moaning or spluttering, they will quite frequently be rude or aggressive. They will question me more than women. Women will often tolerate discomfort, ( I give all my patients a signal to give if they are in discomfort) they are more polite

Of course this is generalising. There are many, many decent men. But I think it's absolute crap that men don't have the space to express their emotions and women do. Women suffer with higher rates of mental illness than men, and attempt suicide at the same rate. The men's mental health crisis is MRA propaganda, designed to discredit feminism, talked about in Andrew tate/reddit spaces. Its used in the same way abusive men will often threaten to kill themselves. Women should not be expected to do yet more emotional labor to cure men of their mental health problems

The men I know are all well able to express themselves, emotions and all. And they are from a range of backgrounds.
Changing roles mean that men don't have to shoulder all the financial burdens of a family, be strong and silent all the time etc, now. That's a good thing. Its a shame that some factions (both male and female) want to drag us back to the 1950s.

It's interesting that you look at the dating market (because that's what it is, really) and see "hot guys sleeping with as many women as they want", when the other side of it paints a wholly different picture - pick any straight dating site you like, and it's the women with all the power; they're the ones who get to pick and choose the guys they want. The sites are even built with that bias in mind now.

And...the ones they're mostly choosing seem to be the hot guys who sleep around.

Kinda glad I don't play in that pool.

I know! Just when you think you've heard ALL of the stupid shit the Internet has to offer someone tries to gaslight women, those oppressed by patriarchy that men the beneficiaries of patriarchy are the true victims.

And no, men have absolutely zero trouble finding their voices.we hear their options on absolutely everything even mansplaining women's issues to women.

Having worked in male dominated environments they are also perfectly good at expressing emotion. I've had everything from a tough site manager telling me the day he married his wife was like winning the lottery. Another telling me about the traumatic birth he had just witnessed and how he had cried in the car. I've listened to male colleagues talk about how hard it is to deal with a parent with alzheimers and the emotional impact of that . I've had a burly engineer cry in my arms because his girlfriend was physically abusing him.

Men are just as emotional as women and just as capable of talking about it.

Focus does not need to be pulled away from the violence and hatred shown to women daily because some men can't say how they feel. In the US women don't even have bodily autonomy. We still don't have a world built for women's bodies, we don't have medical research dedicated to half the world's population. In Afghanistan women are basically prisoners. We don't have equal pay, equal responsibilities. We can't walk alone in complete safety. Rape convictions are comically low.

Women do not have anything like equity. Our needs are always pushed to the back.

There is no space for a coversation about poor old men at the moment. They need to wait, just like women have. Women are dying because of domestic violence every day, because men still do not see women as people.

And if you are a man and your answer to that is no, we can deal with mens issues too. Why haven't you been screaming the same about the issues women face daily? Why haven't you been going on men's forums and telling them they need to change?

We know why and it's because patriarchy benefits men.

I have no idea how incels come into this discussion, by identifying themselves as such they are a bit outside the pale and misogynists, not normal men struggling with their masculinity.

I see this discourse a lot online but I don't think its true. The men I know have absolutely no problem expressing their emotions, their opinions. And generally their opinions are listened to more, and they get away with much more "emotional" behaviour than women. If I raise my voice in a meeting I'll be accused of being unprofessionol or hysterical for example

I think the issue is actually men have difficulty rationalising and processing their emotions. I think some men struggle with the concept that their emotions aren't listened to by everyone, and people aren't pandering to their needs.

I also disagree with the idea that women are more able to discuss their emotions. Women's feelings are often dismissed, I work in a medical feild and one of the conditions I manage is a chronic pain condition exacerbated by stress. I see so many older women coming in, caring for multiple generations, on the edge of a breakdown, incredibly stressed and they are just expected to cope. They may tell me they are stressed but only after probing. No one is thinking about these women's feelings. None of their family members will give them a break, they frequently are carrying generations worth of problems

Men on the other hand will immediately say they are stressed, they bring their wives who have a list of their medical conditions, remember all their allergies, they don't remember. They will immediately cut back on what they are doing in the home, and often themselves.

Women, particularly older generations, have been raised with the concept that their feelings and opinions aren't important, I don't agree that women talk about their problems more than men. Perhaps the younger generations

Men did build support networks - how many poems have been written about the feeling of brotherhood/mateship they found in the army for example? Or fond memories of learning bushcraft in the Boy Scouts with their dads, or rugby tour with the lads, etc?

For example: dating apps & general modern sexual culture - it is well known that "sexual freedom" has led to an imbalanced dating market with hot guys sleeping with multiple women casually while most get nothing.

It’s really not that simple. This is something red pill podcasts claim often. But I know plenty of women, some very conventionally attractive, who have given all kinds of men a chance irl and online too. So many men, even ones considered average or less than average in terms of looks/money etc still treat women they meet online or irl very poorly given half the chance.

As someone who’s dabbled in online dating and haven’t really went on looks as I’m more concerned with personality/character, I’ve been disgusted with some things men have said . And not all of them have been “hot”. I think how can any man even think this will get them a date?

I know many other women have had far worse experiences than me as well. I remember when unsolicited dick pics were a widespread thing and it was just a thing women doing online dating had to tolerate.

Honestly so many men talk themselves out of relationships and sex and dates, because they can’t be civil and respectful for even one conversation.

I was thinking exactly the same. I’m often baffled on here how close the mentality is to that what you hear about incels. The way “men” are labelled as all the same, all this and all that. It often feels like very little difference.

Always been the way, men are meant to be strong and un-emotional, if anything less so in recent times, a problem for men and women how much of their emotions they can or should show.

Yes just as @TheGentleSwan put very well. Abstract sort of observations absolutely. But couldn’t apply that analysis to himself and our relationship. Would just shut down or go into a very angry bout of DARVO. Totally heartbreaking and confusing 🫤