To think there’s a real crisis in men being able to express how they truly feel about life and society?

Absolutely! So many are silently suffering with things like rape, DV, coercion etc. But because women are seem to be 'talkative' or 'chatty' doesn't mean they are sharing what is really happening in their lives. And the fact that women attempting is not seen as a crisis is also a concern. Men doing it is a crisis but more women attempting is not. Says it all really.

It all should be a crisis but when it comes to women it isn't seen as an issue.

Women do not always talk about their issues. How many women have told someone they were raped? Very few. How many live with DV but do not share? many. Most women live without sharing that as they know that 1. they will be blamed for it. 2. not believed and 3. falsely accused.

Mass generalisations in saying that there will be both good and bad men who commit suicide. It is the law of probabilities that in that group there will be some good and bad. It isn't all good men dying or just all bad men dying. It is a mixture. Yet we only acknowledge that it is good men doing this. We do not want to include the bad men who are doing this as that wouldn't have the desired effect would it?

Why not include all of it for a whole picture of what is going on?

PPs point was that the number of suicide attempts by women exceeds that of men. Which doesn't sit well with the theory that women's ability to talk through their feelings affords them a protection that men don't have.

How would you do it? As you want to.

Lots of mass generalisations here and much of it woefully inaccurate.

But in answer to your last point: women talk openly about issues, men don't. Which is what this thread is about.

Well, wanting to is the start. I'm not getting the vibe that many want to. In my experience, people either know how to give support... or they don't.

Woman can help to change misogynistic views men hold

yet to see this happen

people only change if they want to and they work at it

How many of the men who take their life are good men and how many are bad men avoiding the consequences of their actions?

What is the ratio of good men to bad men taking lives or are we assuming all who do this are good men?

While all suicide should be prevented and it is tragic that this is happening, within these figures are many bad men who knew the net was closing in on them and they would go to jail etc for their actions.

Also why is it talked about that it is a crisis men are committing suicide and not a crisis when women attempt as the numbers of women attempting are far higher than men succeeding but that is not a crisis, right?

How?

Wrong. Women can absolutely help. Those of us that want to.

6 pages of woolly feelings with no evidence.

How do we know there is a crisis of good men being unable to express their feelings?
What are we being asked to do to address this? If the intention of the thread is to garner support to address a problem, it's helpful to have some evidence that the problem is what it's purported to be, and some clarity about the expectations on us to address it. Because all I'm seeing here is women being urged to do 'something' because men aren't able to voice their feelings. Which is all a bit vague and unsubstantiated.

And you think that's caused by misandry?

I think it's more likely to be caused by societal misogyny - men can't be 'weak', a large number of men expect women to solve their problems for them (eg. make them go to the doctors, don't forget to take their medication, provide healthy meals)

Lots of men have no trouble displaying all sorts of feelings, it's only some feelings that are bottled up, and again, in my experience, the reasons they choose to do so are misogynistic. I don't think women can really help here - the men doing this don't value women's opinions, I think this needs to be men stepping up to help men.

You'll notice I said sexual assaults - also vast majority committed by men. Obviously rapes are male only.

All pregnancies aren't 'committed by women' though - pregnancy requires input from a man I think you'll find.

I see you struggle with logic though with your final example.

All buttercups are yellow, doesn't mean all yellow things are buttercups..

(oh, and there's plenty of non-religious terrorism..)

I wonder how much of this is that a lot of men's emotional support avenues take the form of group activities, which we've made mixed-sex, because we didn't recognise that the activity was providing a form of emotional support which is sometimes best provided in a single-sex setting?

We are all (rightfully) up in arms if men try to come to a women's support group because we visually see the image of a bunch of chairs in a circle or a therapist talking to a patient as an emotional space which should be protected.

But there are always people complaining that, say, men's sheds aren't inclusive of women who enjoy carpentry.

You know that multiple things can be true at the same time, right?

Yes, all those things are things are true. However, there IS also a crisis of genuinely good men struggling to be open about their feelings/mental health with, many, taking their own lives as a result.

This thread is trying to address that.

My point was not that women or men have it worse/ better.

It is that emotional freedom of expression/ wellbeing is a two way street.
There is no way for men to have the benefits that women get from being geared this way without also providing understanding and support for others and in the context of this discussion, particularly for one another.

Can you explain what exactly you mean when you say you think emotional honesty in men is ridiculed and minimised?
Honesty about what? Ridiculed and minimised by who?

OMG same! If I were male, I would run a mile from these mumsnetters. Every morning would be a long moany lecture about male privilege.

More deflection. Hard to argue with someone who counters the huge societal problem of men not paying maintenance and walking out on families with " Yes, all pregnancies are committed by women?". Committed?

Of course all rapes are commited by males: in law, only males can rape.

All pregnancies are commited by women, because, only women can get pregnant. Argument doesn't stand.

All terrorism is committed in the name of religion pretty much - are all religious people terrorists?

The difference, much like the difference between men and women, is one of scale, and ability to affect change.

It's not misandry to highlight differences in societal treatment of men/women. Women (like me) saying that their experience is cowardice/laziness keeps men in an unhappy relationship isn't misandry. Pointing out that men commit the vast majority of sexual assaults (and necessarily all rapes) isn't misandry (nor is it saying all men are rapists). Pointing out more men walk out on their families and avoid maintenance isn't misandry.

Ignoring all of that is definitely misogyny though.

Which law is it? That a woman pointing out men's poor behaviour is worse than the man's actual behaviour?

I would listen to him.

Of course, he's brown. As am I. I guess as diversity hires, we never have to worry! We will always be hired first.

In the real world, he took a sabbatical for a year for health reasons. Which I was ok with. Got a bit difficult as I had to support the house on my salary. But we got by.

Okay but serious question - if your husband was depressed because he couldn't find a job or was stuck in a low-paying one, and he started a conversation with you about being frustrated that HR diversity hiring initiatives might be working against him, what would your response be?

(Would he raise that frustration in the first place or would he know your views on the general topic already?)

OP is not talking about individuals. Pretty sure most women would be kind and supportive of their husbands or sons or brothers if they were depressed or lonely.
OP is talking about men as a class. As a class, I don't believe women need to take responsibility for male loneliness. And if that turns men into incels, it's not our fault as some posters have claimed.

Exactly. I've read just three completely random comments and the misandry is off the scale.

Really hope I support the men in my life more than most on here...