To think there’s a real crisis in men being able to express how they truly feel about life and society?

Even in “man spaces” I’ve witnessed, they are run by misogynistic ex-12 steppers (OK but that’s a whole other issue) who have an agenda and only seem to flame and justify abusive stances. Speaking from being on the other end of someone attending these groups too

How is this mocking vulnerability? It’s mocking men who kill their partners.

My feeling is that men have always been conditioned to contain emotions and showing too much is not really encouraged.

I see it's men doing this to men/ boys. I don't see mums telling their boys to man up but I see dad's doing it. I see mums trying to challenge this all the time.

I feel that there are bigger issues impacting women who have less of a voice and are pretty much dominated in every sphere. It doesn't mean the post title is incorrect. It's not a pressing issue for me as much as say encouraging males to view women and treat women better generally.

By better, I mean less misogyny, violence, sexism.

And how you do this I have no idea. Education in school and blowing up SMedia would be a start.

We had a message from school recently encouraging parents to talk to kids about toxic masculinity. It turns out the school hadn't. I thought, please can you bloody cover this topic and help back up a challenge to what's going on because there will be households where the guys are all toxic and won't be teaching anything useful counter to it.

Bit of a side track.

Yep

And to justify why the system is skewed towards women. HA!

My DH has very few friends. Because he puts zero effort into making any.
That's on him, really. He would agree that nobody is stopping him but himself

I put a lot of effort into making friends. All the groups I belong to have mostly women and very few men. Men are often too lazy to join clubs or groups. Their problem not ours.

We assume that if men talk like women that they will have the same outcomes as women. I think that it's false equivalence.

I think the status games for men are brutal and, combined with a preponderance to violence, against others and themselves, it's an incredibly risky combination that won't be overcome by sitting in a circle and talking about feelings.

I'm sorry, but what?

Men find stability in having a stable job, and a wife and kids and now some are upset that they don't have those things.

Men were and are also the ones to mock and ridicule women who didn't have a husband by X age and labelled them "spinsters," "crazy cat ladies," or told us that "you're going to die alone with cats gnawing your face off." They take great pleasure in reminding women when they're "undesirable."

So, what? Now the tables are starting to turn and they can no longer utilise destitution as a means to trap women into marriage with them, we're to feel sorry for them? Men have never felt a lick of sympathy when a woman is lonely or alone.

Sure, of course, most people (men and women alike) find deep meaning and purpose in community and rootedness in family, etc, that isn't unique to men. Loneliness isn't unique to men. Women can and do feel loneliness, but what women don't do is demand that men date them to fix that problem. Women are far more likely to resolve their loneliness through building communities around themselves-joining clubs, meeting and making new friends, etc.

Men do need to be able to do that, sure, but men need other men to role model that for them alongside other, healthier behaviours and tools of coping with negative emotions. None of this will be solved by women-unless the implication is that women should be forced to marry these creatures.

But what is naming the problem and making a cultural shift, if not for unpaid emotional labour?

Perhaps we move in different circles, but I don't think I know any women who ridicule men for showing sadness or vulnerability. I think that's pretty much solely men.

Men generally don't have a problem with showing anger. It's women who struggle with expressing anger. I'd personally like more space in society for female anger!

I'm not just being bloody minded. I don't just think woman don't have a responsibility to fix this for men, I literally think they can't. Unless enough men have a will to engage in a different type of emotional life, nothing will change. No one else can make men be ready.

“Like, what messages do men get from other men? What kind of male friendships or communities are encouraged? How is emotional openness portrayed or rewarded in public life?”

Those really are questions for men to be thinking about. What can women really do about any of that?

I'm male, but maybe not typical. I've never been married, always lived alone or with friends, and I have a number of male friends I can speak to honestly if I'm feeling lonely or worried.

I do feel there's a double standard in how men and women are perceived and that in the world I live in, women are allowed to be angry and sarcastic towards men. But when you see what women have to put up with it pales into insignificance.

Do you know how hard it is to try your best to get your partner to be open with you about their feelings and to be supportive only to be shut out time and again, and then when they eventually end up in front of a professional (counsellor/ therapist/ doctor) and can talk to them, you feel so awful having to hear about how they have ended up sick because they can’t talk about their feelings?
Why don’t you tell us what we can do that we’re not doing to get men to be comfortable expressing their emotions?

It’s not women’s problem to solve. My own DF is over 80 and is self confident enough to ask for help and he doesn’t give a shit and never has if other men or women think he is weak. But you met him you would think he was old school, so to speak.
He’s also someone his friends go to talk things through.

You go on and on abour how men cant express themselves emotionally. Yes, they are. By assaulting, killing, and raping women.. Anger is an emotion.
When men stop being responsible for 95% of sexual crimes, I will worry about their vulnerability.
It's women who are deeply vulnerable.

I'm aware my opinion is unpopular but I agree to some extent with you. The issue is the patriarchy and that gets lost a lot men are by far the largest group to uphold the patriarchy but as a Black women I've seen white women want to uphold the patriarchy because it's beneficial to them sometimes.

The patriarchy is the reason men can't express their vulnerability and to a large degree it's on men to create their own spaces to allow for grief, tears and sadness.

However, the way we socialise children which lets be honest women play a larger role in (which I disagree with but I digress) the way we socialise children is different according to their gender and various studies have shown this, even teachers at school the boys get given the heavy duty jobs like collecting the rubbish, the girls are called 'love' 'pet' etc we encourage girls to play 'families' we don't encourage boys to 'gossip' or 'play families' it starts early in giving girls the tools to be able to hold space and talk about their emotions in a healthy way but it's not a skill that gets emphasised with boys.

But how do we create this space OP?
Im sure many women on here have experiences of trying to get a man (or men) in their lives to open up and talk but get dismissed for it. I’d often only be able to get an ex to open up AFTER a big emotional outburst of some description. If I tried to calm or reassure or talk through while he was angry I would just get shouted out that I “dont get it”

And this isn’t just an experience with one man. This is nearly every grown man I have met - albeit in different ways. I’m sick to the back teeth of being patient, caring, encouraging and constantly STILL being on the receiving end of their shit. And never getting support in return. I’ve often put so much energy in to trying to make a partner feel loved and happy that I’ve had none left for myself. And even then they don’t appreciate it, I still end up being an emotional punch bag and it fixes nothing. I’m now single. And happier.

Exactly. Men are just as if not more emotional than women. People think of emotional meaning sadness or crying when anger and aggression are emotions too. Not to mention we’ve just this week seen two of the most powerful men at the world have a complete back-and-forth emotional meltdown and ugly fight with each other publicly online. If it was two female prominent figures engaging in the same thing, they would be labelled emotional, unstable, hysterical etc.

But men could be doing that now. It's not up to me to shift, move over or make space for men.

The point is, OP, that you keep glazing over is that men DO have space. They're not short on space to discuss whatever they choose to.

If they're not choosing to utilise that space to discuss their emotions and issues, what precisely do you want or expect anyone (on here or anywhere else) to do about it?

It's so odd posting this on a women's forum and then trying to shuffle backwards and claim that you weren't putting this issue on women to solve when that, is very clearly, what you're trying to do.

If men aren't using the vast swathes of space that they have to discuss these issues in a productive and insightful manner, that is their choice. I'm not losing sleep over it or going to break my back to figure out how to force them to do what they clearly don't want to do.

I think, going by the numbers of people suffering mental health issues, we could say that both young men's and women's suffering is at the crisis level. There's a lot of bitterness between the sexes, in both directions. It's sad. I don't know if men really are struggling to find their place now with a feeling of not being so useful as their fathers and grandfathers in previous generations. I don't know but I can see what you mean OP. It doesn't mean young women aren't also struggling but it is possible to agree with you about men.