I felt like I got shut down in a weird way by my DIL

So a woman on here a few days ago was annoyed that her MIL wanted to take her son out for his birthday just the two of hem and was told she was wrong.

Now a mother in law asks the very same question and is told she is wrong.

Could there be a clearer indication of the first rule of misogyny?

It doesn't matter what you do. If you are a woman, you will always be wrong. On Mumsnet there will always be basement dwelling teenage boys and young men waiting to put the boot in.

It's absolutely fine for a mum to have a meal with just her son. If this was a dad asking about taking his son out, the daughter in law would be called entitled for wanting to join in. If this was a mum wanting alone time with just her daughter the responses would be very different too.

Can you imagine if a mum and daughter wanted a pamper day or a shopping day and the son in law insisted he go in the mum's place?

Mums of sons are still allowed to have a parent child bond. The expectation that dils are their competitors and should be able to put them out for their own ends is simply yet more misogyny.

Gosh I never felt like that giving birth. Being pregnant and having babies was a rite of passage, used my body how it was designed to be used and was an absolute privilege.

When our first was six months, I'd spent six months at home, playing with the baby, going for coffees and park walks whilst DH did a demanding job, didn't have the privilege of spending all of his time with the baby, and we certainly didn't get babysitting three times a month like the op. At the six month stage DH was far more tired than me because if the baby disturbed our sleep (frequent) he still had to go to work and be on top form.

I think it's also wrong if the FIL/male friends would do it and sounds very patriarchal.

I think if the FIL has done the same thing there wouldn’t be a thread on MN about it.

You used language “date” and “role of the wife” to describe the MIL’ actions, you wouldn’t use “date” about FIL.

I don't think you did anything wrong with wanting to spend time with your son. Can you spend some time taking your daughter in law out?

Agree, I find this framing of it really odd. I like to think I could occasionally spend time with my children when they have families without having to continually consider its impact on their spouse/children - that's largely their job. And certainly without this wierd rewarding them for their role in the family ickiness. All sounds like people are taking themselves far too seriously.

Again I think there is a disconnect because you wouldn’t bring the gender of the parent up if there wasn’t. If the issue is about the son being recognized for his parenting efforts and not the DIL what difference would it make if it was the mother or the father recognizing the son and not the DIL. What you’re saying makes no sense bc if that’s what the DIL is upset about why would she only care about her MIL not recognizing her and not her FIL your logic doesn’t make any sense. I think you’re reading something different to what I’m saying?

There’s a weird dichotomy on MN - SAHM is the hardest job in the world Vs same mother who after being lauded for her SAHM efforts, must also almost disown an adult son once he marries or else “can’t let go”, “apron strings” etc.

I think this is unfair. You asked your son, he said it was fine. You already babysit to give them time together. Her parents also help. If there was an issue, your son should have told you it was not possible or suggested an outing with all of them, explaining that she didn't want to be left alone with the baby.
I completely get where your DIL is coming from, after a week with the baby, she really wants some adult company, not more of the same. However, that's a conversation she should be having with your son.
Probably the way the day out was mentioned as a reward for you son got to her as well. If your day out is a reward, where's her award?

I've taken an extra year off work though I do some freelance work in the evenings, as nursery fees were crippling, and I fine it harder than working alot of the time.

There's a relentlessness to the weeks when you're a SAHM to a baby particularly, and adding an extra day on by your son being away for the day on a weekend must have felt so mentally draining for your DIL.

Your son should have asked first too, not for permission but because theyre a family now, and she might have been able to express her wishes then instead of after the fact.

It doesn't sound like she's objecting to your not rewarding her for her contributing with a day out with you, rather that she'd like her own space and time out with her DH. It sounds like she probably was replying to your reasons for taking your son out when she was saying she contributes too etc.

Honestly I've RTFT and it sounds like everything is sorted, everyone's talking, lessons learnt and mindfulness of DIL is in the bag so hurrah!

However, I can't help be struck by some of the hardline attitudes on here about MILs "transgression" in this instance.

Two people have (presumably) decided to have a baby together. They have decided on a parenting dynamic that suits them (presumably). They are adults and get on with it. The wider family seems pretty chill and supportive.

So I really don't get this endless analysing and hand wringing and expectation that either parent should be elevated or treated or recognised for their apparent contribution to family and society by virtue of having done what millions of people have done since the dawn of time.

Support and care and kindness from MIL should be a given because that's what decent people do, but having to tie herself in knots because she framed one on one time with her son in the wrong way and it's unfair on DIL comes across as a bit neurotic.

If a mistake is made, they can talk about it and do things differently to suit everyone's feelings then great, job done.

I'm just not really getting all the feminism / patriarchy / incubator rhetoric being hammered home.

At the end of the day, you choose to start a family, you then have to navigate and learn and adapt to how that goes with wider family and which battles are worth fighting. You're now an adult, and a parent, and yes, it's tough alot of the time, and yes, some aspects are unfair, and big problems and patterns of being de-valyed as a mother do need addressing. But I'm not seeing that in how the OP describes the situation and it's quite plain "lessons have been learned".(in fact the whole tone of things makes me imagine a world where fines can be imposed on MIL for such transgressions, and some posters probably would welcome that )

I think it's really sad that all sorts of relationships these days seem less and less natural and organic, and people seem to approach them with checklists of psychological analysis and immediate defensiveness before there are major signs of dysfunction. The world is not ideal, people are not perfect, big issues do need management of course. But this whole situation really doesn't fit into big issue territory at all IMHO.

I agree generally that offering to babysit for them is the most neutral thing and generally the most appreciated, but as you point out, you already do this, and my impression is that the treat for your son is a one off, or at least rare, event. If that is the case I think she's overreacting and you are reasonable to (occasionally) do that, especially as you checked with him first - it's for him to check with her, not you. t's good she feels free to mention it but there's a balance to be drawn from her side too. It's hard for us to read from your mail what a reasonable view of her reaction was but there's potential that she may have been over-assertive.

I’m glad someone else noticed!

You are doing so great though acknowledging and making an effort to do better most people don’t even do that! :( i’m a full-time single mom and at first it kind of made me sad to see what you said, but I can totally see that you were very remorseful and I get wanting to have time with your son because even as my daughter gets older and has a family I would wanna have one on one time with her. But it’s definitely so important to communicate to the whole family and make sure everybody is comfortable with things before making plans, it shows a lot that you came and let yourself be vulnerable and seek answers because you were only trying to be kind but I totally get DIL side too

I wish I'd had a mil like you who was so willing to help and to listen.

I think there are two issues and for me the lesser of them would be feeling unacknowledged in my efforts as a mother. The fact it matters so much to her suggests how you feel about her is really important to her.

The bigger issue for me would be looking forward to the weekend and co-parenting together, only to find I was on my own with the baby on one of the days. I think your son has been more inconsiderate here than you have because he should have understood this situation and found a different solution to spending time with you.
During the week she probably has a routine of playdates but everyone tends to disappear into their families at the weekend, so I imagine it is doubly lonely to suddenly be on your own with the baby.

I'm trying to think what the win win solution would be here because it's important for you to have time with just your son too. There are conversations you can't have when you're all together, and there is only so much free time for this couple.
Maybe in future treat them both to a day out that you can all enjoy, watch how your son is with the baby. Does he do his fair share? then babysit on the evening so that they can go out together for a few hours.

Attitude adjustment suddenly? All very odd.

You seem to be arguing with everyone who's defending you so I'm not sure what you're looking for here. I personally don't think you've done anything wrong - and I'm a mum of two tiny ones.

This to a point.

Being a parent is choice.

As for the “hardest job in the world” compared to what? Is it harder than neurosurgery, nursing, prison officer, teacher?

Lets be reasonable and recognise that while SAHP is work and has a lot downsides including being told it isn’t “work”, it isn’t the “hardest job in the world”. And if you thought it was why did you take it on?

Not in the slightest. It's a turn of phrase and one DH and I used to use about each other if the went for a jolly and presence had to be confirmed in advance because sole availability for childcare/parenting was required.

Good for your DD for saying it how it is! I would have kept quiet to you and grumbled to DH. The days can be really long and lonely when you’re caring for a baby (even if you would much rather be an SAHP than work) and you created another long and lonely day for her. It’s good you’ve now seen the error of your ways.

I think you sound lovely.

My MIL has never babysat for us.

So it's wrong that a MOTHER can do something for her own adult child ? Rather than have to always treat them as part of a couple.. sorry disagree with this

??

She recognising that he is under pressure in work. I don’t think people would have the same issue of the FIL did it and I stand by that.