To think that free breakfast at school is a bad idea due to the quality?

The level of protein they have is very likely not to be optimum for other children. But my point is they manage and grow on very small amounts of protein. Levels that without very careful management and specialists foods are unobtainable. A ‘poor’ diet considered ‘low’ in protein and full of UPF would have protein levels many times higher.

I know nothing about PKU, but wonder if it’s a case of the benefits outweigh the risks for children, who need a specialist diet - rather than the optimum for “normal” children?

I did the ketogenic diet for DD1, because the potential benefits in terms of quality of life outweighed my concerns, about it not being a balanced diet, the high levels of fat, very little fibre and restricted range of micronutrients due to the very low carbohydrate levels? It’s not something I would have chosen to do in a million years for her “normal” siblings.

In the 30 minutes they have to make breakfast, serve, eat, wash up, dry up, sweep, mop and set up for lessons you think making butter, bread and yoghurt?

I'm also fascinated how this could be managed in that timescale! Why don't you model it to the school how to fit it all in?

Some kids do. One of mine isn’t a fan, I love porridge and it’s my default breakfast, so good behaviour has been modelled. I’ve tried toppings fruit, honey, jam , chocolate chips but still no.

I make them breakfast flapjacks instead made with lots of ripe bananas and peanut butter.

I think with children it’s generally good to have a couple of options.

I still think the "French kids aren't fussy" is a myth because some of them are. I've had a total of 3 French exchange girls and they were all very fussy, my DD was a fussy eater by British standards but these girls were a different level. As I said before one of the fathers phoned me and he said not to worry she was always the same.

The point is ‘enough’ protein is very little. Children with PKU struggle to eat a diet with low enough protein even with specialist foods. Milk in a bowl of cereal and a slice of white bread with margarine would be more protein than a PKU child can have in a day but it is still enough protein for growth.

High protein diets are not appropriate for children, they are often misunderstood, badly executed and an expensive fad.

@Booboomylove I am suggesting adequate protein at every meal, not a high protein diet. The dietician on DH’s NHS pre diabetes course said refined white carbohydrates like supermarket white sliced bread are just turned into sugar, so along with jam, isn’t it all sugar? How does it keep children full until lunchtime? My husband’s cardiac rehab dietitian said she could hardly recommend cereal for breakfast, because it’s barely got any nutritional value - and anything that has to have nutrients added to it, has them, because they’ve been stripped out in the manufacturing processing. She could only possibly recommend Shredded Wheat?

How do you know poor children get enough protein the rest of the day? At DGCs’ infants school, the children are allowed to choose what they have for lunch, as it’s supposed to empower them and cut down on waste. DDIL was tearing her hair out, as DGS has been under a consultant since last August for constipation, and now DGS is free not to choose any veg or fruit (or protein) with his lunch.

That's different to whether or not children from the most vulnerable socioeconomic groups do get enough, though. Which in the case of the ongoing study you refer to as confirming that children do get enough was based upon parents self reporting online on the basis of four separate days and a tiny number having blood tests.

ETA: The fact that a large proportion of the sample children have cereal and milk on the days reported (even if they didn't have anything or actually had half a stale yum yum from Greggs) suggests that fortifying milk with vitamin D wouldn't be a necessarily bad idea for all groups, not just the poorest.

Yep. I was working in an inner city secondary school around the time Jamie Oliver did his school meals push - school stopped offering total junk and moved to (somewhat) healthier offerings - nothing crazy, just not chips every day. The parents were bringing McDonald’s and fish and chips and handing it to their kids over the railings…

Understanding of how much protein is needed is not based on a few children’s parents filling in a questionnaire. Exactly how little protein growing children can get away with has been very carefully studied for children with PKU, and it is a tiny amount - less per day than that in a glass of milk.

No just adding to the idea of kids making yogurt. I think the curriculum at school is full enough but it was a nice thing to do at playgroup, I can imagine it at brownies/cubs or similar groups if people think making yogurt is a good idea.

Are you proposing this is done at a free before school breakfast club?

We used to do it at playgroup. They made their own butter, helped make bread and also yogurt. Your own fresh butter on bread you helped bake was loved by the kids. Make yogurt and next session they could add fruit or honey. It was a popular activity not every week but from time to time. I think some mums were also fascinated.

There is protein in the milk on their cereal, add some fruit or fruit juice and it seems balanced.

Lol at the suggestion schools teach children how to make their own yoghurt. The parents who can’t be bothered to fed their children aren’t going to have the ingredients in or encourage making from scratch.

They need a balanced breakfast, which in an ideal world would include protein. I am by no means suggesting a low carb diet.

Bearing in mind that I see no issue in hungry children having fortified cereals, milk and foods they will actually eat being provided from them, I am somewhat sceptical of blanket conclusions being reached on the basis of the small numbers of the selected children - the ones whose parents completed the questionnaires for four separate days, made themselves available for field visits and rarely consented to blood tests (17% of the children in total), saying that children get more than enough protein in their diets, particularly when taking into account the lowest socioeconomic groups needed to be able to respond online/occupy secure housing to be able to be followed up/etc.

I am a dietitian. Please see my previous post explaining how cereal, milk and fruit meets children's nutritional requirements. High protein diets are not appropriate for children, they are often misunderstood, badly executed and an expensive fad.

What makes you think children need protein for breakfast? Children in the UK are on average getting more than enough protein in their diets to meet their requirements (based on the National Diet and Nutrition Survey data). The trend, and it is a trend, for low carb high protein diets is not an appropriate, safe or healthy way to feed children.

Sorry posted too soon, which would you buy?

Just to add to this.

You have £1 left at the end of the week. You want to buy a treat for your children. Apples cost £0.50 each, A punnet of plums costs £1.30 so you can't afford them.

Or you could get a packet or two of biscuits.

A lot of poorer families don’t travel far. They stay tight to their community and won’t even go a mile across town even with public transport. This can seriously restrict their food choices - foods like fresh fruit and veg are generally more expensive, lower quality and less choice in convenience stores and local supermarkets. If you have a low budget then you are looking to buy calories not nutrition with your money which means UPF, convenience foods, basic carbohydrates. Turning the oven on is also expensive. And when you apply these available food choices across generations it is not surprising that you end up with children and their adults having poor diets.

Apparently the mass closing happened in 2010 I was only 9 then so have no idea what they were like at their peak but when I was taking my eldest to baby class 8 years ago it was always very busy with different things going on. Still seems that way now from what I hear

where I live the buildings still exist but have Been repurposed dome still have midwife ,children's clinics etc but i don't think it's the same role as sure start.

These places still exist though? I live down the road from one, they're not necessarily aimed at feckless parents the one near here had a lot of baby groups for under 18 mums that was always busy when I used to take my eldest. I think they also have groups for parents of disabled children which I've heard are well used.
I don't think it's true when people on here say they all closed or the groups weren't used by the target audience