Is there any evidence that home education/ taking your child out of school improves outcomes for SEN children?

Considering how toxic so many schools are these days, I think it's a perfectly valid choice for a parent to remove their child if there's something going wrong in school.

What does OP mean by "outcome"? There's more to life than GCSEs. Poor school experiences can mean a lifetime of problems, if, say, the child has been mercilessly bullied and they spend decades unable to trust people, which feeds into not having proper relationships, friendships, etc.

But lots of Home Ed children do perfectly fine academically as they can learn better in a safe environment away from disruption, bullying, etc.

We'd have taken our DS out of school in a heartbeat at the first sign of him being bullied, or even any other reason for unhappiness. We both suffered crap comps and wouldn't wish it on anyone else. I left school with no qualifications at all after 5 years of abuse and bullying, and then taught myself (alongside evening classes) to get GCSEs, A levels and then a chartered accountancy qualification! I'd been a straight A* pupil before starting the crap comp. I wish my parents had taken me out of school as it literally did nothing for me at all! Even now, decades later, I'm still anti social because I'm afraid to be around people after five years of verbal and physical abuse at school!

Well it didn't fucking work for all the abused DC who were killed by their parents or foster carers who took them out of school to cover up abuse did it?

Don't say I'm making ridiculous assumptions and the LA monitors it when they clearly haven't.

The new legislation coming in is BECAUSE of Sara Sharif being withdrawn from school and murdered. So you can climb down from your high horse.

If the previous system worked as well as you say it did, DC like Sara and others would have been protected wouldn't they?

Except they weren't.

Same as Victoria Climbie 25 fucking years ago.

You're going to be a shit social worker if you think it's ridiculous to have concerns about home-education since again and again, home schooled kids have been home schooled to cover up abuse and neglect. Despite all the safeguards you stupidly think were in place.

Areas differ a lot in how much monitoring they do of home ed. I have a friend in one area who sends in an annual report and has visits. A friend in a different area has never had any interaction with the local authority.

And it used to be a lot easier for someone without qualifications to succeed and get a fulfilling job. But having seen what one friend has been through in getting her first GCSEs in her 40s because her parents didn’t value education. Juggling taking those qualifications alongside working and bringing up children? Yes, she’s now well on her way to a better paid career but a couple of decades of minimum wage cleaning/caring jobs haven’t done much for her self-esteem or retirement prospects.

Re reports, isn't it currently the LA can make enquiries annually and only really a report is considered sufficient to respond to that enquiry? Though technically not specified as you must provide a report.

I EHE DS4 who's 10, have done since Yr2. DS1 and DS2 were entirely educated in school. DS3's SEN placement has recently failed so he's home but the LA have the Educational duty.

There were many reasons we de-regged. Tbh the intention wasn't to EHE this long, but there's no suitable schools for DS4, and setting him up for failure when there's no alternative is something I just couldn't do. He was in such distress at school he wasn't able to learn anything.
I do work very part-time, DH is a tradesman and we get by financially. No UC.

We do have a weekly tutor, but I had to drop some of our EHE groups when DS3 stopped attending school in February.

I do worry a lot about DS4s future, but even DS2 who is very academic burnt out in Yr11 and his attendance was 50%. Fortunately he got enough GCSEs to do A Levels and he's had a good 6th form experience. I really didn't think staying on was a good idea so I've been proved wrong in the best of ways.

Actually no - legally no reports have to be provided as things stand.

What a ridiculous assumption to make.

The local authority monitors home educators. Reports have to be provided regularly with evidence of adequate learning; the new bill being passed will mean the level of monitoring will be even more extensive. If a suitable education isn’t provided and evidenced, the LA have the powers to send children back to school.

My ex-husband left school with zero qualifications. He makes a huge amount of money and is well respected in his field. I returned to education to retrain in my 30’s and am about to qualify as a social worker. There is more than one path to a career/making enough money to support yourself.

I don’t know the answer but I know I personally couldn’t home school due to my dc’s extreme needs and I am a teacher.

I considered taking my dc out of school when they were struggling on part-time timetables but they were both permanently excluded anyway. They both went to a PRU (different PRUs) and were both permanently excluded again. Everything broke down unfortunately and I had to give up my career but there was no chance of anyone learning a thing in any environment. It was literally survival each day for all of us.

Some DC having a substandard education or no education I'd imagine.

And that meaning those DC have limited options in terms of work in the future and therefore limited options to contribute to society as adults so setting up more benefit claimants.

There's no way we could do it. So child is in mainstream secondary atm. He actually hates the thought of anything else because he likes being around people. He struggles somewhat socially of course. But he likes having a group of mates there.

It's a hard slog. I am not main carer as I'm battling multiple debilitating diseases. But I am doing non stop work behind the scenes because the workload when you're child is SEN is like 3 having 3 kids. Probably more tbh.

I understand the predicament for schools. So we have issues like detention and not concentrating on classes which required me to non stop go attach with all the legal jargon and kindly start demanding stuff. It isn't even their fault because they don't have a clue how to manage this huge ND population.

We're getting along ok as my teen is pretty academic, good at sports.

If I was fit and healthy, I still couldn't home school. It would be too much.

That’s quite an assumption on your part.

Support from who?

Home ed children often take their GCSE’s at least a year before their peers in school.

Keeping her enrolled in school also meant she finally got an EHCP in year 11. I don't think I could have managed that if I'd taken her out of school.

At least the EHCP will see her through to college and Uni. Unless the government scrap them.

The child has no qualifications or support going forwards.

Mine missed 18 months of school but has managed to do exams in school in a private room. I was briefly threatened with legal action but managed to get a (pointless) GP note to cover mental health issues so the local authority backed off.

What long term problems?

But I also see a lot of parents pull their children out of school (in my opinion) prematurely.

why do you think so? what do you know professionally about triggers for EBSA. What do you know about the families whom you judge to pull children out too soon?

And why does it bother you so much when parents make decisions for the wellbeing of their children. Children, with whom I presume you have nothing to do with?

What long term problems does it create?

"But I also see a lot of parents pull their children out of school (in my opinion) prematurely. ".

I have seen this happen almost entirely because the education authority threatens the parents with legal action when their child misses a lot of school. The parents are scared and don't have the money or knowledge to battle against it. It gets the child off the education authorities books but creates a long term problem.

I’m not sure this is directly answering your question, but I’d like to offer our experience. I have 4 kids who were all / will be HE until 6th form, mostly as it felt too early to send the eldest to school aged 4, then we became part of a thriving HE community and it became a way of life.

My 16yo has just been diagnosed as autistic with ADHD. His bf was diagnosed the same last year. They’ve known each other since they were toddlers and have both been HE till now, they have achieved GCSEs and will be off to college in September. All the reading I am doing atm about receiving a diagnosis in mid teens talks about the likely MH issues due to the pressures of school and masking. I honestly don’t recognise this at all in these kids. They have a wide circle of friends, wide ranging interests and are members of several clubs. So I would argue for the child that there is no such thing as withdrawing them from school too early. Obviously the effect on family finances is a different consideration…

I think it depends. And how you weigh up happiness with also getting an education and planning for the future.

I know someone families who home educate really well.

Others not so much.

I know one family who have taken their 2 youngest out of school. One with possible SEN and one with a physical health condition she recovered quickly from.

Their Mum constantly says how happy they are. And they are because they get up when they want, do an hour of some worksheets in the morning and spend the rest of the day shopping, on outings to Costa or on their tablets.

They're both very behind in their education and their Mum seems to have no plans of how to address this or what their future might be.

The 9 year old does want to go to back to school for secondary but will be so behind I doubt she'll catch up.

The 7 year old doesn't want to go to school ever and Mum doesn't seem to want her to but has no idea how she'll pass any exams, get a job or be a functioning member of society.

Mum not wanting to get a job is also playing a huge part in her wanting the DC to be home-ed.

It would be a really good topic for a qualitative study. You would get very nuanced answers to the question though I'd think, but possibly some good policy advice and useful things to think about when making the decision.

Eh? How is it removing them from future society?

Most home ed children I know are out and about more than school based kids.

In my own case, we did one at least one "out the house" excursion every week. We live within commuting distance of London, so we did museums, Buckingham Palace, Houses of Parliament, BBC behind the scenes tour, art galleries. Locally we did similar and also matinées at the theatre.

He still did the same clubs and after school activities as he did previously so still met up socially with his peers. And because it wasn't 6 hours a day in a difficulty environment he managed these relationships far better.

He works now and gets good feedback about his work ethic. Still struggles with inter-personal relations, but it is what it is.

But he was certainly was not removed from society. Ridiculous comment.

My son has always been a school refuser it started off with him talking about headache, tummy ache, ear ache,eye ache you name it he had it to avoid going to school.
We managed to get him all through primary school with the help of the attendance officer trying all different treat options for him to come to school.
Our real problems started when he started secondary school he went for the first 3 weeks then it started once again tried all of the I’m ill things but we said school will send you home if your ill
I took him to school every day as he would not go by himself
Then he would get what I called meltdowns and hot referred to Camhs who diagnosed severe anxiety
Still made him go to school then came the assaults when trying to get him to school I was tripped up, slapped, pushed into a bush, ran away screamed at cried at begging me to please not to take him in it was awful
At aged 14 I removed him from school as it wasn’t working thought I’d take the consequences as the education department for our area said they refused to let him be home schooled.
Within a few weeks his anxiety calmed down the house was calmer still had issues just not like they were.
My son was diagnosed with PDA autism at 18 and ADHD
I honestly believe if my son hadn’t been taken out of school when we did I would not have him now either by seriously hurting me or by doing something to himself
sorry it’s long
i also think school is good my older 2 have been all through school and 2 are still in school.

This is a very good point
noticed this in lockdown
my ASD demand avoidant DS who just about manages in mainstream, would not home school very well as I was ‘just his mum’

My DS self combusted in secondary. He had just about coped with primary, but secondary was a step to far.

I have no regrets about taking him out. He wasn't learning, he was constantly getting into trouble, didn't understand the homework as he was so far behind.

I have no regrets whatsoever.

I did put him back into a 14-16 environment but the same issues occurred.

Now at 22 he has no qualifications, but has been working for a couple of years, has found his niche, has a very good work ethic, gets good feedback and has had a small promotion and pay rise.

Since leaving the mainstream education system he has been diagnosed with ASD and ADHD.

I concentrated on trying to fill in the gaps and strengthening basic maths, reading and writing skills. I had no intention of tutoring him through GCSEs. Night school can do that if he wants to at a later date. Removing him was all about damage limitation.