Children drowning on holiday.

What they have faced isn’t a conversation though. And neither is a lot of this thread. The Kiser family have faced unbelievable judgement, criticism and wild accusations in what is arguably one of the most horrendous times of their lives. This thread isn’t a conversation, people are using it as an opportunity to preach about their superior parenting when in fact it’s thinly veiled judgement and blame.

I’m all for a conversation, this is judgement.

I've pulled 2 kids out of the water in the past year and that was in the UK, swimming pools with lifeguards and the parents in the pool. One was a clear case of stupidity, the father left the toddler sitting on the pool stairs and he was doing laps. But the other one was an older child, maybe 6, very busy pool, mum distracted by a sibling and he must have moved outside his comfort zone. It's scary how quickly things can turn dangerous.

I think some people think that there's so many people around that someone would easily spot something and help- not realising that most drowning is fairly silent and without much obvious distress being visible. On holiday recently my DH suggested that the kids could go in the pool together without us, as they can both swim (aged 6 and 11). I said absolutely not, as I would never put that responsibility onto the 11 year old, or expect her to have enough awareness of signs if her sister was in trouble.

It's so sad and whilst some of these tragedies are down to clear neglect (not watching children for a prolonged period) it can be so easy for a tragedy to occur in a couple of split seconds.

My eldest (then aged 5) went under in a hotel pool in Morocco. He was standing on what I thought was one of the wide pool steps. I was in the pool itself and we were through throwing a small ball back and forth to each other. He took a step forwards and what I had assumed was the first in a series of steps was actually just a ledge. Half a second and he disappeared under the water, with just his sunhat floating on top. He didn't scream or splash, he just sank to the bottom like a stone. Obviously I swam down and grabbed him immediately but even those few seconds felt like hours.

One of the things I found most alarming afterwards was that the pool was busy and crowded with people and there were TWO lifeguards on duty but only I saw him go under because I was watching in that moment. We signed up for swimming lessons as soon as we got home but it was really haunting.

Several years later our youngest age 2 escaped from our holiday apartment in Fuerteventura when I was in the loo. She was a bit of a bolter so we were always meticulous about latching the door once we were inside. What I hadn't taken account of was that there was also a back door in the kitchenette which opened into the bin alley and was only used by the cleaners. It had no handle on the outside so no one could get in but to unlock and open it from the inside you just had to push the handle up. Toddler discovered this before we did. I realised she was missing straight away and went running out. She had already made it to the edge of the pool, wearing just her nappy (and bizarrely MY trainers like clowns shoes) and was marching along singing happily. Two concerned looking ladies had spotted her and were trying to steer her away as I raced up hysterically. Another moment I still shudder about.

Neither were allowed to go in the pool without one of us until they had made enough progress in swimming lessons to do a full length and be able to haul themselves out of the pool from the side and even then I would watch closely. They could both swim better than me by the time they were 8 or so.

I think I'm quite a careful mum but it made me realise how quickly and silently things can go wrong.

DD1 didn't even learn to swim (with lessons, in fact she could do doggy paddle with arm bands) until she was 5 as I knew she wouldn't be out of my sight as one of us would be in the pool with DD1 and DD2. And she picked it up then so quickly. DD2 did in fact have lessons younger but only as big sis was going anyway.

I think some parents think "oh they can swim" when they are quite little and have lessons from a young age, when in reality they still need close supervision. It can lead one into a false sense of security. Even older children or adults who are strong swimmers can make a mistake or have an accident, there is always a risk.

Yes, afraid I agree. So many parents don't seem to get it. There was a tragic case in Cornwall a few weeks ago where a child drowned. Apparently his dad had let him get out of the pool and walk to the baby pool to see him mum but obviously didn't watch him walk down. Child fell in and drowned and the parents tried to sue the holiday park. Never rely on lifeguards! It is your job to watch your child! My 6 year old is a good swimmer but I am either in the water right next to him or watching him like a hawk from the side.

Absolutely, for a 30 min lesson, once weekly it is £57. If you are on a low income how is this affordable? Local authority classes are full.
We should start our own campaign for every child in th uk
I used to be a lifeguard so I understand the importance of swimming/floating. my boys learnt to swim from a young age as I felt it was an important lifeskill

I am in some ways dreading a family trip to Center Parcs as we’ll be swimming every day and I’ll be with our newborn while my husband is with our toddler who loves water - not that he’s not a good, attentive parent! I just also want to be right next to them, not watching from the side.

But the fact I’m so worried about the water is related to why this thread doesn’t sit right. The posts and replies essentially saying “How could this happen?!” make me feel uneasy because accidents can and do happen so easily, even with the best parenting.

You can watch someone drown right in front of you if you don't know what to look for.

The first paragraphs of the article "Drowning doesn't look like drowning" are helpful / horrifying (same name as item linked above, but different website) -

"The new captain jumped from the deck, fully dressed, and sprinted through the water. A former lifeguard, he kept his eyes on his victim as he headed straight for the couple swimming between their anchored sportfisher and the beach. “I think he thinks you’re drowning,” the husband said to his wife. They had been splashing each other and she had screamed but now they were just standing, neck-deep on the sand bar. “We’re fine; what is he doing?” she asked, a little annoyed. “We’re fine!” the husband yelled, waving him off, but his captain kept swimming hard. ”Move!” he barked as he sprinted between the stunned owners. Directly behind them, not 10 feet away, their 9-year-old daughter was drowning. Safely above the surface in the arms of the captain, she burst into tears, “Daddy!”

How did this captain know—from 50 feet away—what the father couldn’t recognize from just 10? Drowning is not the violent, splashing call for help that most people expect. The captain was trained to recognize drowning by experts and years of experience. The father, on the other hand, had learned what drowning looks like by watching television. If you spend time on or near the water (hint: that’s all of us) then you should make sure that you and your crew know what to look for whenever people enter the water. Until she cried a tearful, “Daddy,” she hadn’t made a sound. As a former Coast Guard rescue swimmer, I wasn’t surprised at all by this story. Drowning is almost always a deceptively quiet event. The waving, splashing, and yelling that dramatic conditioning (television) prepares us to look for is rarely seen in real life."

The article goes on to clarify the difference between instinctive drowning response and aquatic distress and that if someone can't respond to an "Are you OK?" get them out of the water.

Jo

DH and I take our 2 dcs swimming every week and one of us is next to and interacting with one child each. It's a fun time for us as a family and the dcs like us playing and splashing with them, so it's never occurred to us not to be seeing what they are doing at all times - we do it because we're right next to them, chatting to them or physically interacting with them. The pool is always fully booked (leisure pool with slides etc) and I wouldn't want to rely on the lifeguards - they often look bored or distracted with admin or maintenance.

On holidays at the beach they're always holding hands or at least within arm's reach.

As other posters have pointed out, people have an unrealistic idea of what drowning looks like, thanks to TV. They think that if their child falls in the pool, they'll scream for help and flail their arms above the surface.

Also, you'd be amazed at how naive people can be about children's swimming abilities. The other day, I was discussing Madeleine McCann, saying that she could very easily just have wandered off to the beach and drowned. One person said, "But even if she did, she wouldn't have drowned. She knew how to swim." She seriously thought that a three-year-old without water wings would stand a chance against the ocean current. Alone. In the dark.

I agree threads like this are helpful to learn from. Reading all these stories has scared the life out of me and I will definitely use tips like the red ribbon to show who’s responsible for watching the child and dressing them in red or orange. The Emilie Kiser case is so tragic and I’m sure they will blame themselves for the rest of their lives that they didn’t have a fence.

We went to a swimming pond abroad some years ago. My kids were about 8 and 10 and decent swimmers. They went in the pond and DH I sat at the side relaxing. But they started to swim out to an island and struggled - the pond wasn't massive, but it must have been a bit further than they were used to swimming. DH went after them and all was fine, but I look back and wonder what I was thinking letting them swim without us.

There were other times that one of our kids got lost in IKEA (kid thought this was a great laugh!), or DH and I were in different parts of the garden centre and each thought the other had the kids, or when one kid got away from us and ran towards a road.

I don't really judge other parents; everyone makes mistakes, and mostly there's no damage done. Hopefully you then try not to make that mistake again.

My oldest son got on fine with a float jacket, I don’t know why, but with my youngest he just fell face down and the water got between him and the jacket and dragged him down. We abandoned it quite quickly.

A friend’s small son had a close call when the DH (who barely ever looked after the kids by hims) threw himself into the deep end of the holiday pool whilst the DH was doing laps. Apparently he had expected his young son just to sit there and watch him. I think it was a combination of not really knowing his own child as he was usually working and also going into ‘holiday mode’ where he felt entitled to relax.
The bottom line is that you never, ever get to relax when you have younger kids. It’s just how it is.

Its awful but I do think the time to talk about water and pool safety is straight after something like this happens. Whilst I feel sorry for the Kiser family I have seen a few families installing pool fences on SM. If one life is saved surely it is worth having the conversation?

There are definitely tragedies where it could happen to anyone, but also plenty of situations where parents are just not being careful. At a campsite in Italy a few years ago there was a wave pool - everyone would pile in and the waves were super strong. Myself and my husband took a kid each as it was so crowded it was very risky. Loads of lifeguards would line up either side. Where I was standing, there was a small boy on his own and not able to cope, but thinking he was having a great time. I'd say there were about 10 sets of eyes on him, he was pulled upright and out of the water by several people and just jumped back in. All these strangers kept him alive and when the wave bit ended he ran over to his dad, standing chatting at the other side of the pool, drinking beer. If your child is not big and a competent swimmer, you need to be in the water with them at all timea. I am a bit paranoid about water safety and see parents on holiday every year who are not watching their kids closely enough, in the pool or in the sea.

Totally agree OP. I feel the same. A close friend of mine lost their child to drowning, it was over ten years ago - long before my own kids but it’s sat with me and I’m probably a bit over zealous with water. I won’t take my two swimming by myself for this reason.

Last year my son made friend with an 8 year old who was left to swim alone whilst his parents were elsewhere - in a yoga class etc. he was competent but still needed to avoid the deep end. I was horrified! There wasn’t even a life guard on duty at the resort.

I've heard of the strategy of a "necklace" for each child so it gets passed to whoever is watching them. That way everyone has a really clear idea, especially if there are a lot of adults so everyone doesn't just think someone else is.

I hate these too. I was once alone by the pool (very early morning run) spotted a tiny toddler at the edge, about to jump in. We were the only people there. I grabbed her, wandered around to find her room, then I saw an open door! Mum came out and I told her. She had a completely blank expression. No ‘thanks’ no shock, nothing.

They were a family who went three on a motorbike with no helmets though so thick as mince.

100% this.

We have a holiday home with a large very accessible pool. We have thankfully never had any near misses, and we had so many rules with the kids were little around not going outside the villa without an adult, keeping all the doors locked, kids learned to swim from when they were very small etc.

But I know that the reason we’ve not had any near misses is just that we haven’t been unlucky. With the best will in the world, accidents happen.

This, 💯. Horrible how other people’s tragedies bring out the absolute worst in people.

Influencer Emilie Kiser’s son tragically drowned just a few weeks ago and the abuse and scorn those parents have faced in the weeks since has been horrific - utterly beyond comprehension.

This is so sad

Another horrible thread in the disguise of ‘education’. In reality it’s lots of of posters affirming how nobody here would ever take their eyes off their children, never glance away for a second or get distracted for a moment (the underlying message there being their superior parenting means an accident could not happen to them and others must have been negligent if it has). This kind of thinking is dangerous in itself. ‘I’m not judging or being goady (but I pretty much am because here’s all the reasons it wouldn’t happen to me/ hasn’t happened to us)’.

I’m pretty sure all the parents and families this has happened to might have said the same thing once upon a time.

To date, nothing like this has happened to us and I consider myself very lucky. I try as hard as I can to watch my children when they are swimming, but I’m human, and I know that any number of factors - both in and out of my control - can and have happened which mean that I don’t have my children in my sight every single second. It’s not a lack of education, or care, or awareness - it’s life. Horrible things happen to good people all the time no matter how careful we are and I’m not going to judge (even when I’m pretending I’m not) anyone for it.

We were on a beach with marker buoys quite far out to show jet skis etc weren’t allowed to come near shore. There was a big family group with kids playing at the shore line and they’d brought a large inflatable swan. We heard a commotion and several of this group were running into the water. Realised the inflatable swan was past the marker buoys and heading out into the bay. Turned out there was a little girl of around 5 in it. It was awful, half the people who ran out and then tried to swim to her needed rescued themselves. A kayaker managed to go over and stop the swan going any further and eventually a jet skier brought her back to shore. I dread to think if she’d tried to get out. I think there was just so many adults in the group, they all thought someone else was watching the kids.

Also years ago saw a toddler step into the pool while mum and grandma were in the poolside showers and she’d wandered off. Luckily the life guard saw it at the same time I did and got there quickly, he reached down and grabbed her by her hair.