Is it normal school asking us to pay for additional support?

The plan-do-review cycle takes about 8-9 months, although it can be shorter if there is significant medical evidence, such as for a physical disability such as cerebral palsy. The timescale from agreement to assess is statutory and is an additional 20 weeks.

I wouldn’t have a problem with this in principle, but I would want some details. I’d want to know the hourly cost. I’d also want to know the name of the therapist, and their qualifications and credentials. And I’d want to meet them first. You don’t want to be paying £50 per hour for the maths teacher’s wife who did a 2 hour online module in child care to come and sit with your son.

This is correct - state schools buy in speech and language therapy services, Educational Psychology services and specialist advisory teachers. It is paid for from the school budget. Some state schools have art therapists and nurture teachers, paid for from the school budget.

They will be under pressure from parents to have all children behaving.

Maybe he’s better behaved at home either because he’s getting the attention from adults he craves or you intervene before a problem arises.

Why does he say he makes silly noises? Why does he break children’s models? Does he understand that it’s unkind and will upset the other child?

I know you’ve said he’s not the worst you’ve seen but you don’t see these children at school.

This all sounds a bit much in Reception. Some children, especially the younger ones and often boys, are less compliant and more prone to being "silly". My own DS was simply not ready or able to sit still and concentrate like some of the others and preferred to wander a bit and play with the tuff tray activities instead of sitting on the carpet for "input". His teacher recognised his developmental stage and left him to it a bit, making sure that she had 1:1 input time with him when he was receptive to it.

He's now KS2 and absolutely flying, has taken many positions of responsibility in school, has loads of friends, achieves well and loves learning. He simply wasn't "ready" for school as school is in the UK at Reception age.

As others have said, private schools have to juggle parental expectations to a greater degree and if other parents feel your ds is detracting from the experience of their own DC, then the school are going to put the responsibility and financial burden of sorting that out on you.

I would be careful not to pathologise what could be very developmentally normal behaviour, nor put pressure on a very small child to conform when he is not ready or able to as it could damage his relationship with school and learning for a long time. Being sent out of class (for what, with whom? How long? What does this achieve?) at this stage is a form of punishment and humiliation completely unsuitable for R aged children.

You could offer to pay for a TA to help manage his behaviour within the classroom but I'd be considering moving schools to somewhere a bit more accepting of normal developmental variance tbh.

The school pays the first £6000 of the EHCP. funding, whether state or private.

Ultimately, the duty to ensure the SEP detailed, specified and quantified in F is provided lies with the LA. EHCPs can be fully funded, but LAs won’t do that unless forced.

Getting an EHCP should take 8-9 months without an appeal.

If you don’t have to appeal, the legal timescale from EHCNA request to finalising is 20 weeks, not 8-9 months. Although there are a few limited exceptions to this timescale where it isn’t practicable for LAs to comply.

I didn’t comment on the likelihood of the OP getting an EHCP, with or without an appeal. I was commenting on incorrect information posted by another poster.

I was suggesting that the OP looks for a suitable state school. My elder daughter attended a small, quite upmarket CoE school which had very few SEN resources. She was like a fish out of water there. So I looked at other schools and that is how I found the well resourced school. It was a huge community school with a much more mixed intake.

It prioritised sen support in a way in which the other school didn't.

Later, working in ehc parental support, I got to know which schools were good with sen support and which weren't. Rule of thumb, the bigger the more resources, the more mixed socially, the greater emphasis on sen.

Private schools often use out of date teaching methods. Most schools won't be sending any reception aged kids out of the classroom

@Octavia64 your statements about the support offered at state schools is completely incorrect. It is incredibly common in state primaries for individual children to receive support from speech therapists, educational psychologists, behavioural therapists, art therapists, occupational therapists etc etc. All within school time, at the school's expense, or the local authority's if the child has an ehcp. At the very bog standard primary I work in we have associate psychologists, training to be ed psychs (with close supervision), who have a full timetable working with children 1:1 or in small groups. As well as 2 speech therapists doing 3 full days a week of 1:1 speech programmes. As well as highly trained emotional literacy support assistants who work with children identified by school/parents as needing emotional support. All of which is, of course, free. In my opinion SEND children are very often much better catered for in mainstream state primaries than private schools, where the reasons for any 'misbehaviour' are often ignored. May be a different story in secondary.

We've been told he has behaviour issues in school such as making silly noises in classes

Making silly noises is developmentally normal at age 4.

or pushing down other children's lego etc.

Normal play development. Is he hurting anyone?

He is probably sat out two / three times per week.

I find it sad that a young child is excluded from playing so often.

We've observed him playing in groups (birthday parties, clubs, etc). He's definitely the less destructive type but can become overexcited quite easily and do silly things especially among children.

4 year olds are often overexcited at parties and around other children.

He's behaving much better with grown ups. Teachers and we all agree his main problem is impulse control.

Anyone with knowledge of child development would know that impulse control develops later in childhood.

I don’t know the child, but I have my own child (now an adult) and I wouldn’t have sought therapy for this apparently perfectly normal behaviour.

I looked into an independent school for my DC who is autistic. When looking at a specific one I did see that there are extra charges for children who require SEN support. I didn't apply as the fees alone were already to much of a stretch for me, so I don't have any actual experience of it but did read that there are extra charges for SEN support.

In our experience, if you want support as early as possible you have to go private- in our LA anyways, which is one of the ones facing bankruptcy due to send costs. Any sort of support is a wait of literally years. Great that your school isn’t facing such dire shortages, but the send crisis and funding gap is a matter of public record and it is distasteful to see so many posters claiming ‘all fine here’ about state schools within that larger context.

The school pays the first £6000 of the EHCP. funding, whether state or private. Getting an EHCP should take 8-9 months without an appeal. There is currently no evidence of additional needs, so a panel would turn down a parental or school EHCP request unless additional evidence is available.

Not sure anyone is fit to assess that based on such a brief description. Op also doesn’t really seem to know the nature or purpose of therapy, so no one here can say whether it is appropriate or not, even a vastly experienced professional such as yourself 😉

The Equality Act means the school must make reasonable adjustments. That doesn’t mean they can’t charge for SEP that goes beyond that duty.

Just to add, all state schools have a sen budget and access to an Ed psych and speech and language therapist. Independent schools do not. This is why parents are expected to fund everything themselves and the therapists they suggest may not be adequately experienced.

I have 2 children who had ehc plans. It is really important to get support as early as possible - wait and see isn't really a good strategy at this point.

A good state school will have lots of support, not just a class TA. Sometimes what you need is flexibility, OT type interventions, playground assistants who focus on the more needy children, specialist equipment. My girls' school had an OT programme twice a week before school for children who needed help for example. It had youth workers for break times. An emotional support teacher with a room with sensory equipment.

a threshold amount (I think it's £6000 per year) but the process of getting that statement of needs takes at least 2 years.

The school does not have to spend £6k before an EHCP is issued. That is a myth LAs like to perpetuate. The EHCP process doesn’t take 2 years unless that time is because of appeals (whichever I appreciate some do).

It doesn’t sound to me as though a 4 year old needs therapy for the reasons described in the original post.

Independent school means you pay for things like this. Yabu to think you dont. Doesn't sound like the school is right for your dc though as they supporting you. Is there more supportive schools near by. Sens provision is awful and takes years to set up. I've friends who got children in year 4 who been waiting since reception for the support their children need.

They are asking op to pay for some therapy sessions, not a full time 1:1.

my dc had therapy in school and it was one session a week for a term. Immensely helpful, and grateful for the proactive and attentive teachers who saw the need and put support in place so promptly.

Just wanting a bit of clarity: You say the "SENCO thinks he needs additional support and has asked us many times to consider additional support from a named therapist at an additional cost. The other form teacher seems to be ok with the current situation and is always quiet when we talked about additional support."

Is the SENCO actually suggesting you child needs additional support IN the classroom, to learn better and/or manage his behaviour in that setting? Or are they saying that you should think about your son having therapy outside of school to help him with some aspects of life?

It is NOT legal for an independent school to charge parents for providing in school support that a child needs because of disability . Since the 2010 Equality Act, additional support to help the child manage in the school setting is generally regarded as part of providing an education to the child. However obviously they can suggest that the child has additional therapy to help the child, not to help the school manage, and can charge what they like for them!

I appreciate you sharing your knowledge of additional support at an independent school, but as a senior leader of a primary school, I just want to correct your post.

Many state schools either use the funds from their pupil premium budgets or the money they have because they have lots of children with EHCPs on very well trained ‘in house’ practitioners (who are not TAs).

My school has a very accomplished counsellor and a brilliant speech and language therapist on site. If OP’s child were in our school they would have access to these professionals.

Not all state schools provide the less than adequate provision which you describe.

Ds had an IEP throughout his state primary but the help lessened as he went through the school (mostly because the SENCO had family issues). He also had speech and language therapy via NHS but the sessions were very sporadic as they were always short on speech therapists. In the end we went private and he really progressed. He joined an independent prep school when he was in year 7 and the teachers generally dealt with any problems relating to his ND very well without the need of any support - which we would have had to fund.

No, they are asking OP to pay for a 1:1 and as a very experienced SENCo, I know it’s unhealthy for an additional adult to be Velcroed to a 4 year old when he’s playing, so as a Reception class teacher I would be making sure the child didn’t feel singled out by having an adult with him. Therefore the TA that one parent is paying for - on top of fees - would be supporting other children. That’s why my advice would be to look for another school.

Our independent has a TA and a teacher in a class of <15. Nowhere has op indicated that they are asking her to pay for a ‘class ta’.

edited to add that our indie was far more play based for longer than the state school we started with. Stop with the private school stereotypes- there is a great deal of diversity in the sector, and the benefit of paying is that you can pick an ethos that works for your child.