Is it normal school asking us to pay for additional support?

I don't care how you've construed what I've written. As a SENCo in the independent sector I know what I'm talking about. The post isn't about me. Spend your energies helping the original poster instead of attempting to discredit me.

Wrong about the fact that you said "in the state sector you would wait years for an EHCP. Even in the independent sector an EHCP could take many months"? 😒

I agree (with your quoting and interpretation).

I can't connect on which sector it's actually more difficult to get an EHCP in, but I fully agree with you that the poster has stated that it is quicker to get an EHCP in the independent sector than in the state sector.

You are wrong. I don't care how you read my post. You are just plain wrong in your assumptions, about which, I care zilch.

You said "in the state sector you would wait years for an EHCP. Even in the independent sector an EHCP could take many months" so never mind me backing off, this comment outright compares getting an ehc in the state and private sectors.

I used to work in ehc parental support and it was generally MUCH harder for parents in the independent sector to get one.

Actually, I read it similar to that poster I think. At least, I read it as though you were saying it's quicker in the independent sector. It was the bit that says:

In the state sector, you'd wait years for an EHCP. Even in the independent sector, an EHCP could take many months to be granted...

that seems to imply this.

Was about to say...you'd just would NOT get the support in a state school. It's about what can be afforded by different services, not what your child needs. So conveniently children often don't 'need' said support....It's such a long ridiculous journey to getting support and it's a postcode lottery depending on how much each funding the council has to pay for it.

No, I am not. If YOU have construed this from my post, then you have not understood what I've written. Back off.

Your quote.

Are you seriously suggesting that It is easier to get an Ehc in the private sector? That is utterly not true.

In the independent sector, it is very, very normal to be asked to pay additional fees for additional services and provision. In relation to behaviour support, this is likely to be a therapist / counsellor type person and is probably very well known to the SENCo, and engaged by the school on a 1 to 1 basis for other students. He/she will have professional qualifications which should be easy to check yourself. You should also be able to request a meeting with the person and to have regular feedback, even a plan of action and a review at intervals. The Headteacher, if approached, will bat this back to the SENCo because that's what the SENCo is paid by him/her to do. For behaviour, it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY you'd qualify for an EHCP unless the behaviour was extremely dangerous to fellow pupils and adults. In the state sector, you'd wait years for an EHCP. Even in the independent sector, an EHCP could take many months to be granted, and involves all sorts of assessments by a range of specialists.
If, however, your son has a suggestion of Dyslexia, then a specialist Dyslexia assessment can be carried out ( again, in the independent sector, you'd be expected to pay the assessor). However, any Dyslexia assessor worth their salt would insist on evidence of need over many months before a proper assessment prior to diagnosis.

They want him to have speech therapy and occupational therapy, even though he has no diagnosis, because he makes silly noises and pushes down kids’ Lego? That sounds like typical 5 year old behaviour to me?
Is it the kind of school where they expect kids to be mini adults?
I know someone whose child is at a very “traditional” private school, at the pre-school they expected children to be fully toilet trained by 3. Is it that kind of environment?
If I were you I’d send him somewhere he’s allowed to actually be a child 🤷‍♀️

You will have to play ball with the school or otherwise you might be labelled difficult and eventually managed out.

In independent school parents would pay for additional support if needed and if no EHCP in place. Often even with EHCP you may need to top-up.

IME private school SENCO characters are not keen on helping with EHCP applications or doing their job properly.

IME with a DC with SEN, his school and outside agencies have provided support. We both work, no benefits, but have never had to pay. Maybe because he has an EHCP, I don't know.

i am sorry but which five year old has impulse control?!!! teachers need to fix their approach instead of punishing him or reinforcing through labels they should demonstrate acceptable behaviour, and divert his attention when needed.

My sister’s DD was at a small village state primary. To an onlooker it might look idyllic - however, they overlooked the horrendous bullying she was receiving from the other girls and no clue that she might be autistic.
My DS went to a 3-form entry state primary which probably looked less idyllic to an onlooker, but they were fantastic with him. His year 3 teacher wrote the letter to the GP that led to his autism diagnosis, his year 5 teacher persuaded us to get an ADHD assessment, they made lots of reasonable adjustments for his SATS taking him from a boy who would rip his paper in rage at getting one question wrong to sitting all SATs papers and getting greater depth in all.

So I completely agree that bigger schools may actually be better for SEN children than smaller ones. My DS’ primary now has a small class for SEN children so that they can be away from the large classes at times, so there is somewhere they can go if overwhelmed. They can only over this due to their size and economies of scale.

It's normal to pay for sen support at private schools BUT I'd personally not be paying for something until I was sure what the issue was. It sounds like they're just not great at managing his behaviour, so paying for a specialist seems overkill. I'd probably get my own educational psychologist in to assess him privately, and if they say there's no diagnosable issues and its just behaviour, then I'd be asking the class teacher to support with a behaviour plan or seeing if they can do 121 with someone who just helps keep him on track, rather than relying on an expensive therapist.
If he has a specific diagnosed issue, it makes sense to have some 121 support from an expert in that area. If he isn't, they should be managing his behaviour through normal methods. I don't think I'd be very impressed with them getting him to sit out the classroom so regularly either- theyre clearly not engaging him or working with him in a way that suits his brain, regardless of an issue, and therefore he is missing out on learning. Is there a chance that this school isn't a great fit for your son, even if it looked great originally? Sometimes, schools look glossy and are great for a certain type of child, but maybe he's not that type of child. My son is mild sen, and thrives in a relaxed environment - a lot of independents don't suit this, some are perfect for him, but a glossy, immaculate, everyone is perfect school absolutely would break him. Does your son like his school?

State schools do vary enormously in what they offer - I moved my daughter to a big school which had the space and budgets to provide all sorts of support which the tiny school she was at just couldn't match. Big school also had its very own swimming pool!

I accept that many parents are stuck with one school and can't easily move, but my general point still stands - state school sen provision does vary enormously.

My advice is to pick the biggest school possible if you can. It will have more resources for everything, more experience of a wider group of children, often it will be used to train professionals like art therapists, it will often have sen units attached so there will be management understanding of additional needs etc. There will be loads of after school clubs and so on.

In my LA parents were often really keen on a one form Catholic school in an upmarket part of town but it didn't offer much other than being tiny. And tiny is often not what will work. Often that means a small catchment area, so limited diversity, teachers who are unused to difference, lack of resources, tiny pool of peers etc. And almost certainly no swimming pool!

Our state school SEN experience was absolutely horrific. This was just one school and our own specific situation - but my son was treated appallingly. I am very glad that many on here have/had much more positive experiences than we did.

OP I would ask for more details on specifically which therapies are being offered, and why, and for what expected benefit. It sounds like the school needs to engage with you in more discussion than they have already, to help you make a decision.

If the school is not able to meet the child's needs, move them. If spaces are limited, contact the LA to advise of the situation. If they are out of school for more than 15 days (does not have to be consecutive) then you can submit a section 19 request for the LA to provide an educational offer.

Education for children out of school because they don’t have a school place should be provided immediately. Although realistically it is highly unlikely to be from day 1.

Provision beginning as soon as it becomes clear 15 days will be missed (consecutive or cumulative. And don’t have to have already been missed) is for those unable to attend for reasons such as illness or the SEN or other reasons (PEX aside as that has its own rules) and it should begin by the sixth day of absence.

Lots and lots of the parents using the state school will be working too! There will be other solutions such as wrap around, childminders and nannies. There will be other schools either private or state that it would be worth considering.

I don't think your 4 year old being excluded from his peers for displaying what sounds like very normal age and stage behaviour is a situation you should condone or continue with.

Be very wary of him being made to feel "naughty" or "bad" as this will potentially impact his self esteem and self efficacy and have long term impacts on his ability to learn. Other children in this class are being send the message that your ds is "in trouble" too and these "labels" can be socially damaging.

Clearly we only know a snippet here but please don't just accept that this is the right school for him and have a critical eye on their behaviour management policies and their understanding of normal developmental variance and associated reasonable expectations.

I would be getting an independent opinion. Your son sounds like a normal 5 year old to me, there’s a chance school just want more money out of you. You can pay for an independent assessment from an educational psychologist who will go into school to observe him, then provide suggestions to the school and yourself on the best way forward. Then if paying for additional support is needed, at least you can be confident about it.

Put it this way OP, who did you think woud fund this sort of extra help at an independent school?
I do hope he gets the support he needs to flourish.

If they are suggesting SALT, I would get started on that now as early intervention is quite important. It sounds like OT will also help.

Most independent schools charge extra for support and if there is good SEND provision it is standard to have it in school.

It doesn't sound to me as though the op's very young child is anything other than normal, a bit lively and annoying maybe which he will outgrow. It's quite extreme to expect conformity at that age. He'll learn. It's not like he's being malicious, he's just mischievous.

Just wanted to correct a possibly misleading impression I may have given:

I do have children who went through independent school. This was after they started at state and then it became apparent their needs were not being met (one autistic and one AuDHD).

I have also worked in the state system as a teacher for twenty years.

i was involved with many many schools working with them to improve practice as a specialist advisor.

in my county there is a send funding crisis. I’ve never seen a school that has psychologists and speech and language therapists on site (possibly special schools but I worked in mainstream).

I’ve seen many many schools in despair at the lack of funding for send needs and the battles parents need to go through to get any kind of support.

ultimately, indie or private it’s about the schools themselves and what they offer to your child.