To feel like pub staff should not turn a blind eye to inappropriate comments?

From the OP it doesn't sound like they were specifically making racist/sexist insults AT someone in the bar - they were mouthing off about being sick of illegal immigration and said a bunch of stuff along the lines of "just shoot the bastards", which OP presumably finds distasteful as they are human beings/refugees/fleeing warzones/whatever, but isn't a specific and immediate threat. It might not be how you'd express frustration with government policy and lack of border enforcement in nice drawing rooms, but isn't exactly the same as yelling racial slurs at random patrons.

I suspect the presence of bouncers is significant. When I worked in a pub we also had them, which made a big difference. I don't see nearly so many these days, aside from in city centres and student areas. But then the margins are very different to what they were back in the 00s when I was in the sector.

Agree being in demand likely matters as well. When you have lots of customers you can be more choosy.

People are angry about 20 years of incapable and ineffective Gov. Look at MN - so much grumpy and critical comments -let alone the time bombs of the moment.

We are all pissed off. I wouldn’t strike up a conversation with a stranger on any subject other than the weather.

and brining in laws where you can be prosecuted for saying stuff - not conducive to friendly behaviour.

Yes - that's another issue. Where exactly do you draw the line on what's unacceptable conversation in a pub? We're getting into difficult waters here. Also - I don't know what the law says about private conversations. If you hear some people making racist remarks just to each other at normal conversational volume - what law has been broken? Some people are arseholes - fact.

How are all these horrible conversations going to be policed? It's impossible.

I'm surprised at the replies. When I worked in a bar decades ago the staff always intervened and threw out anyone who insulted a customer or another staff member. Even when a bloke muttered 'wanker' under his breath about the barman the bouncer appeared and had him out the door before his drink was finished.

It was a really busy in demand bar though so that might have made a difference.

Racism is taken seriously everywhere I go however. My DH is not white and occasionally has been subjected to "in THIS country" or "go back to where you came from" vitriol while parking the car or shopping. We always inform staff and they always deal with it.

Have we all lost the power to use our own words?

So many posts on MN where in ordinary everyday situations people expect to ‘report’ things or for someone else to say something, or look for ‘authority’ (police, school, 19 year old behind the bar) to manage a situation on their behalf. To have every social situation manicured to your liking.

Use your words or move away.

I am the wrong audience for that, mate
Not my opinion but there you go
We’re all different

Or whatever.

We KNOW the country is full of people with horrible opinions. 10 seconds on the internet tells you that. But it isn’t catching, just move away to a table and don’t engage.

Horrible though it is listening to some of these pub comments and discussions, the world has changed over the last 40 years and there is a general lack of respect for any kind of authority. It's very difficult, very unpleasant and sometimes actually dangerous for staff in all kinds of settings to challenge obnoxious people.

Teachers get chairs thrown at them and sometimes knives pulled, A & E staff get punched in the face for asking people to behave themselves - to give just 2 examples.

Pub staff are usually very young, inexperienced and - on a low wage. Realistically they're not going to challenge drunk (men) people who are already being vile without any kind of challenge. If they were my staff I would advise them not to. Once a line has been crossed - if they were threatening people, then you could call the cops (except they'd scarper before they arrived) but I'd be interested to hear what pps think COULD be done by pub staff to shut down discussions which might offend some people.

Because the OP mentioned Dover.

I wouldn't make comments that are widely accepted to be inappropriate. I wouldn't point and laugh at someone in a wheelchair and bray about free speech if they were offended.

I wouldn’t expect the bar staff to deal with this, minimum wage doesn’t pay enough to confront drunk people. You also have to think about where you were, if you were in a costal town that regularly sees boats rocking up on the beach from France I suppose the locals would have different opinions about this topic, I have to be honest I wouldn’t want to have this on my doorstep if I was living in the area and I don’t think it’s racist to be concerned about it.

I wonder how a thread would go if it started like this 'I was at a pub with my female friends and a barman came over and told one of us off because a complaint was made we said something wrong'

Well said.

heres the thing. The UK is still socially a manners culture and pubs are a very good example of that.

Manners culture is an understanding that for society to work, you adhere to certain behaviours. We teach our children this when they are very small.

The alternative is rules culture. You can’t say that, you can only say this, this is unacceptable.

In a country with freedom of expression, we are going hear things we don’t agree with in pubs.

You’ve got five choices;

a) Argue back
b) Say nothing and quietly fume
c) Leave
d) Accept that someone thinks differently from you
e) Get into a fight

Rules culture says “police”. It asks the staff or the landlord or even worse, the actual police to get involved. Currently the only bit where the police should be involved is e).

Telling people what they can and cannot say does not end well. But I pubs we are all adults. Act like one before demanding that others carry your views for you.

So you would stay silent to avoid upsetting others?

Is that worse than sexual abuse? Why only mention one of the two?

but no it’s not the job of the bar staff who have their own safety to consider and getting into altercations with drunk men is never wise.

You were triggered by me merely mentioning them @Dangermoo and now you have @ed me two or three times with your oh-so amusing ribaldry. So yeah, whatevs.

Then that's for you to deal with your own insecurity. ooh what happens if people think i vote Reform 🙄I'm not triggered because your kind of sneery judgemental attitude is all to common on MN.

Yes the staff are unreasonable to actually intervene in support of the customer. Pins are like any other institution and shouldn’t allow racism and sexism on their premises. Obviously not possible to stop when it’s a private conversation but standing at the bar spouting low self esteem bollocks shouldn’t be tolerated and definitely not encouraged.

You know not everybody feels like that though don’t you, so it’s perfectly ok for me to reference them in any way I like. Just so as we are clear. I didn’t realise their name was verboten if you don’t support them. Personally I feel it makes me a bit ashamed of where I live in case anyone thinks I’m anything to do with them. Hence why I referenced them in my post, triggering you.

@Chiseltip

Well, that would be great, however, who decides what manners are "correct"?

That tends to be cultural. For example in the UK it's considered polite to wait your turn, we don't like people barging in.

And if "correct" manners are established, what happens if somebody challenges them?

If you barge into an established queue,you'll be challenged.

For example, just a few decades ago, it was considered "good manners and considerate" for women in Ireland to refrain from sex outside of marriage. And in order to not cause upset to the "good" people, unmarried pregnant women were incarcerated in workhouses until they gave birth. The babies were either starved and neglected to death, or shipped abroad for a small fee. The thousands of babies who died were thrown into septic tanks and forgotten about.

This is a big pile of dung being used to create a strawman. There's a difference between not saying thanks and putting babies in septic tanks.

But it was important have manners and consideration, wouldn't want to cause upset to anybody. I mean, what would the neighbours say if they found out!

🙄

These are the things that can happen if you don't believe people should be free to say what they really think.

No it's not. It's made up nonsense. I'm talking about having consideration for others and having manners. It doesn't surprise me that you haven't got a clue what I'm talking about.

Also @LaurenSw was the last day the day of the anniversary of the London bridge stabbing? There was a series of national events around that time, of pavement mounting and people being killed and injured. I remember really taking note of who was about and when I was on narrow pavements/crossing roads etc. It was a horrendous time. That will always cause comments.

I'd have been chucked out of many pubs, during the trans debates, if we policed language. Because apparently, if women wanted those with a vagina to do strip searches, medical examinations, care, be in a DV shelter etc, we were abusers and bigots.
I've heard people from Ghana have certain views against Nigerians. Then there's the view of Nigerians, whose relatives have been killed by Muslims, on the Muslim religion, as they have experienced it, which would be branded racist on here. I've had some really interesting discussions, which if you heard snapshots, or wasn't open to freedom of speech, would have been shut down and wouldn't have developed, especially over Easter/Christmas and the discussion involved someone who is married to a Muslim. So although the pubs I go in are weatherspoons and typical WC pubs, they don't follow the stereotyping on here. I'm from immigrant background thanks to Liverpool being a major port and the men in my family being in the Merchant Navy. A lot of Irish head to Weatherspoons and they know racism.

I would be much more concerned if pub staff felt they could police locals discussing what they clearly consider to be a literal invasion of their country...

Well, that would be great, however, who decides what manners are "correct"?

And if "correct" manners are established, what happens if somebody challenges them?

For example, just a few decades ago, it was considered "good manners and considerate" for women in Ireland to refrain from sex outside of marriage. And in order to not cause upset to the "good" people, unmarried pregnant women were incarcerated in workhouses until they gave birth. The babies were either starved and neglected to death, or shipped abroad for a small fee. The thousands of babies who died were thrown into septic tanks and forgotten about.

But it was important have manners and consideration, wouldn't want to cause upset to anybody. I mean, what would the neighbours say if they found out!

These are the things that can happen if you don't believe people should be free to say what they really think.

It’s a business, they need the regulars more than they needed you as a passing tourist. Bar staff are probably paid poorly, accusing possibly drunk regulars of being racist is way above their pay grade

What sort of pubs are you choosing to frequently frequent? Maybe start there.