To resent the U-turn on winter fuel allowance?

I agree OP and I'm a pensioner.
I live on state pension, do not own my own home (rent) and still manage, although recently I've been able to pick up a few hours work per month locally which gives me a bit of 'pin' money.

However, I would happily forgo the WFA to stop it being a universal benefit for all as the majority of pensioners I know (and I know know dozens and dozens of them, they're all my friends/colleagues/family in my age bracket) do not need it. They all have their own homes and good incomes from private pension schemes including my own family.

The WFA should go to those in need. If means testing is too expensive, the threshold for receiving the allowance should be raised to cover those who are just out of the limit to receive it. In addition, pensioners should be applying for it rather than it being handed out regardless, so that those in real need would be self selecting.

There are (approximately) 12 million pensioners in the country (figures vary depending on source) and only something like 1.2 million survive on state pension alone (again figures vary). I suspect there would be another 1 - 2 million (pure speculation on my part here) who really need the WFA help. That leaves a lot of others who really, really do not need the allowance at all, and they should not be getting it.

I see this thread has just deteriorated into blaming different groups and age groups for everything.
we are living in a time following austerity, aging population, world wide pandemic, brexit, war and trump causing inflation and uncertainty. Whatever your views on all that it was going to be a difficult time with tough decisions

I personally expected to be taxed more after the pandemic and COL / war. Never mind all the rest. Otoh it’s mad to give my wealthy dad the wfa or conversely take it away at such a low threshold. Let them get on with correcting this stupid error and spend less time mud slinging

@OldwmnI hope they do.

This ^

This thread makes me depressed realising that every pensioner I know is infact piss poor. I do work in LA however and from a very WC background so that’s probably why.
My own gran missed out of WFP because she is about £1600 over the pension credit threshold. I have no idea how she survives on 13k a year. It’s really miserable.

By borrowing, to be paid off by the working generation.

Who were the recipients of the furlough cash - why shouldn’t they pay off what they received?

Too much misinformation on here.

Single mothers got a council house - maybe in some places but not where I lived.

CB was universal back then - family allowance in my day and not universal as nothing for first child.

Pensioners protected in COVID - COVID patients moved to care homes killing who knows how many, more likely to be denied ventilators, triple lock not protected.

Can't think of any more but that's a few to be getting on with.

I did as well although fees were about £3k then.

Too many people willing to take public money that they don't really need. I see it every day in my job.

My Dh is 66. He had to find his kids through uni.

I’m 66 and would have got it this year. To be honest I would have just used it on Christmas presents or a treat for myself as don’t need help with fuel bills. All my older cousins have winged about it and then gone on to tell me about their three holidays abroad they’ve had. I think people of all ages who are genuinely struggling should get the help.

The number one issue for this country is housing costs. So much money is spent by the young on them servicing housing costs. So much wealth is locked up by the less young in housing. We need to at least halve the cost of housing to people feel rich enough to want to pay more tax, and also invest more money, and buy more goods and services, and generally live better lives. Just now everyone young is toiling under big housing costs or moving do a different country.

How do we do this? Restricting the size of a mortgage people can buy would be a start. Massive social housing building program alongside rent controls would be good. Ditching stamp duty and upping council tax to incentivise people to live in houses that meet their needs. Yes those sitting on big housing gains will be outraged. Let them be.

My household collected scrap wood for 2 decades... we were not poor.

It was not a top up or means tested when the Welfare state was introduced.

It was universal funded by national insurance contributions.

Because they tell me 🤷‍♂️

That’s right, thanks. I had to look it up. The income strand was suspended for a year (so that pensions only rose 3.1% not 8% that year) and then the full Triple Lock was reinstated from 2023/24 (when they rose 10.1%).

Personally, I think the most vulnerable people in our society now are those without secure housing. Those who own their home, are in social housing tend to be fine and the former group needs extra help, not those in the latter group. There is nothing in the tax system acknowledging this basic fact that we all know to be an issue. If you live in a nicely insulated mortgage free house and have a small pension your situation with a free NHS for all, is completely different from someone at the mercy of a private landlord.

Triple lock was not protected in 2022/2023 Sunak suspended it.

You need to fact check that because it absolutely was introduced as a top up, originally being means tested. Even now it’s not designed to be the sole income.

Austerity involved huge cuts across virtually all departments. Tax credits, child benefits and youth services were cut, housing benefit was capped, workfare policies were tightened, disability benefits and services were cut, as were many other things.

The two big protected areas were pensions (the Triple Lock) and the NHS, which not coincidentally are two huge costs that benefit older people most. Why? Because there are lots of them and they vote.

Covid lockdowns was what put those people out of work to start with. And how was it funded? By borrowing, to be paid off by the working generation. To protect the people who are most vulnerable, the old. I’m not saying that was the wrong call morally or politically. I’m saying it quite clearly was an example of a policy response where the costs were borne by younger generations to benefit the older ones.

It should be means tested. You can't say all pensioners are rich/well off because that's just not true. My gramp was well off, my nan on the other hand had to scrimp by on the bones of her arse. Not everyone bought houses when they were cheap enough, some pensioners still rent wether that private or council. You are very fortunate not to know any struggling pensioners. Just think of that and count yourself lucky,.don't stress about something you have zero control over.

@BlueEyedStarling
Perhaps I'm existing in a bubble

Yes you are living in a bubble of affluence.

A third of pensioners live in fuel poverty, most are not eligible for pension credit.
The average pensioner income is a bit below the living wage.
The group of people most likely to be living in poverty are older single women.
Something like 12% of pensioners pay higher rate tax, the usual measure of “affluence”.

For small flat rate benefits its costs more to means test than it saves unless you remove it also from those who need it. (Osborne didn’t save money by even the most simplistic 40% threshold method of means testing, he had to remove it entirely from large numbers of children to make the saving).

Or to put it another way - none of my colleagues are eligible for CB as they are over the threshold, obviously everyone is well off and nobody needs it so let's remove it altogether eh? Or is it just a bubble?

Its only on MN where “everyone” over pension age is rolling in it, taking five cruises a year and making bread from their children’s bones. In the fact based world, most pensioners are not in that situation.

I have no idea what means testing costs, I'm just giving an example of why it might be worth means testing one and not the other purely on a cost savings basis.

Like I said, I'm resentful of the incessant whinging.

And for the record, I flatly refused the offer of payment for landscaping the garden. Favouritism isn't the issue.

I think it should be means tested.

My parents kicked up an almighty stink when it was removed. Because they've worked all their lives and therefore have "earned it."

Do they need it? No. They've got more money than either of them know what to do with. Do they WANT it. Absolutely. But they don't need it.