To resent the U-turn on winter fuel allowance?

People who fall through the cracks like this should receive it. There are pensioners who don't need it and it shouldn't be a universal benefit.

I totally agree with means testing the WFA. Lots of pensioners, like my dad, really don't need it. However, the original threshold was set way too low and the people who were just above the cutoff would have experienced genuine hardship as a result of losing that money.

I assume that the "u-turn" won't be about reversing it for everyone, but rather about raising the threshold to allow more pensioners to claim it. I absolutely support this, personally. If you're old and poor, there is fuck all that you can do to improve your situation.

This is a genuine question. Given that means testing is too expensive to be effective, or so we re told, how could it be arranged so that people who don’t need WFA could opt out or return it, or what scheme could be used?

I know people who give it to charity and I know people who keep it for themselves. I’d be happy to forgo it, as long as there was a proper system that ensured those in need benefited. It’s a blunt instrument at the moment.

It's not a u turn, they're reviewing the threshold - which i actually think is sensible. I don't think it should be a universally applied benefit though. If we can't afford PIP then we can't afford universal WFP.

Yes, how grabby and selfish of her 🙄

What about pensioners whose only income is their state pension. They are not eligible for pension credit so don’t receive WFA. They aren’t tax payers as the state pension is currently below the threshold. My neighbour is in this situation. She spent decades caring full time for an adult child with severe learning and physical disabilities. Sadly now deceased. She was never in a position to have an occupational pension. Now in her 70’s her income is her new state pension but as it’s paid in full there is no pension credit entitlement. She and others in the same position fall through the cracks .

Yes - they’ve pissed off the pensioners who have worked 35/ 40 years, have the full state pension (many single women in this bracket), no private pension and are a few quid over the limit for pension credit and the children of those pensioners who will be angry on their behalf. Plus the cohort of people like me who think it is grossly unfair that people who have paid max NI and are a few quid over the limit will receive less than those on pension credit who may have worked considerably less than 35/40 years.

And they pay in more in the first place. The average pensioner in the UK is a net recipient by the age of 70.

Reforms plans would leave a £55bn black hole in the countries finances.

Double that according to all the reports I’ve seen.

You are in a bubble.

You're not a fan of seeing the bigger picture are you? Helping your offspring in their lives impacts on their mental health, ability to carry out their professional roles, look after their children, who in turn will look after the next generation and contribute to a growing population. Why does society not benefit from that? I notice you didn't address the community work; volunteering in charity shops, sitting on parish councils, residents' committees etc. Boomers have put in their shift, facing adversities along the way as well as reaping later rewards - why shouldnt they? What about those who are still having to work? I bet you froth over the state pension. Shove your own stereotype.

ETA: feckless single parent daughter? You really are something.

This country is going to keep going down the pan while politicians say what voters want to hear rather than what would benefit the country most. Reforms plans would leave a £55bn black hole in the countries finances. A black hole bigger than the entire criminal justice system. The budget black hole that Liz Truss suggested and sent the bond markets soaring was only £33bn. The guy is totally and utterly insane, but is desperate for power so will say and do anything to gain control - while the countries prosperity disappears down the plughole. We pay £105bn a year on debt interest. That’s before interests rates soar. That’s before we add an extra £55bn a year in borrowing. The country is skint.

@ilovesooty- end result is their pensioners are better off

They means test child benefit (in a very crude and unfair way) - if they can do that, why not do exactly the same for pensioners and the WF allowance? If there's a higher rate taxpayer in the house, it gets clawed back.

Lots of us were already donating it. The local foodbank was very grateful for mine.

I’d like to think that someone could start a charity for pensioners who don’t need their WFA to donate it to. Then needy individuals of all ages could be helped with the funds. Would anyone donate? 🤣
I like to think I would if I were in that position, sadly on my current trajectory I’ll be needing the WFA.

Other countries in Europe finance pensions in a different way.

The government just can’t win. I see your point but equally there are many poor pensioners who have no way of supplementing their pensions unlike working people. We pay less pension than anyone in Europe.

And how does handing on inheritance help society as a whole?? How did my working to pay for twice the original cost of a landlord’s house over 15 years and then watch him hand it over to his feckless single-mother daughter help my family exactly?

You are the ignorant one - or worse, the one using information to lie. Pretending that the shift back to a neoimperial Regency /Victorian society as described by the likes of Dickens as a fit substitute for a nation working to support all of its citizens in equality and democracy.

Don’t like people resenting the rich? Then don’t create two-tier societies.

@WaryCrow

there’s a level of truth in what you say, but it’s an exaggeration and you’ve got the ordering wrong.

Privatisation has been used as a (not very good) tool to try to make the government some money. The reality is that the welfare state has always been expensive and the demographics issue has been storing for some time. The 80s wave of privatisation came off the back of the U.K. having to be bailed out. Later privatisations such as Royal Mail were about trying to get debt down. There has to be a level of more realistic acceptance of what people can have from the state and what they can’t.

And I don't live in a four bedroom detached house, am nowhere near the 40% tax bracket and the only reason I can afford several holidays a year is that I'm still working to finance them. I still don't need the WFA. The cut off point was too low though, and they have to find a way of means testing it.

Almost all the people I know don't need it including the few people that will keep their heating turned right down but they have excellent pensions (people who have done the same job as me).
It is not quite a u turn perhaps a right angle in the hope of including a few more people but there will always be those who just miss out.
I only got it a couple of times - didn't need it but nice to have and split it between my children (give now rather than later so no inheritance tax)

Surely the position of sanity is to do it as a council tax rebate for the poorest, ie for those in bands A-C or whatever - could easily be done on a sliding scale and take into account whether someone was a solo occupant. Councils have this information, central government can change their grants accordingly. Requires little admin. Yes, it will mean that those with low incomes in massive houses will miss out, but then it’s not unreasonable to expect people to take that into account in weighing up whether to downsize.

Single mothers wouldn't have been given a council house in my city in the 70s 80s or 90s. A high rise flat on a grotty estate but only after a spell in a hostel.

If you think it was all so easy watch Cathy Come Home and see how life was rather than some fantasy.

I only received it twice. I'm not wildly rich but I could do without it and donated it to a local homeless charity..