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To resent the U-turn on winter fuel allowance?

461 replies

BlueEyedStarling · 02/06/2025 20:51

Perhaps I'm existing in a bubble, but all of the pensioners I know, are pretty well off, or comfortable, at least. I live and have older family in the South East, but my dad and his elderly partner, live in the North. Literally, all of them say they dont need the WFA, but happily accept it regardless and shouted from the rooftops when it was taken away from them. Just how long can the working age population keep paying for this increasing, triple-lock section of society who are, as a whole, the wealthiest amongst us? Personally, we fell through the gaps of being able to receive any child benefit (only just!), but have always been willing to accept that we didn't need it and therefore shouldn't have it. Is it that our middle-aged generation just dont shout as loudly about things that affect us? I do want to add that I am very aware that there are many pensioners who should be in receipt of the WFA and that the cut off was too low. Also, that our pensioners fair pretty badly in comparison to much of Europe. It seems criminal that it can't be means tested to benefit those who really do need it.

OP posts:
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BIossomtoes · 03/06/2025 11:08

mugglewump · 03/06/2025 11:03

Boomers are the most entitled generation ever.

Are we? What do you think we’re entitled to?

ShyMaryEllen · 03/06/2025 11:07

mugglewump · 03/06/2025 11:03

Boomers are the most entitled generation ever.

Can you back that up in any way at all?

Some 'boomers' might have been entitled to things like council housing, MIRAS and so on, but those at the younger end weren't. And being entitled is not the same as having feelings of entitlement. Generalisations are pointless and don't move debates on at all.

mugglewump · 03/06/2025 11:03

Boomers are the most entitled generation ever.

ShyMaryEllen · 03/06/2025 10:47

The baby boomers have been quite happy to watch everyone younger than themselves freeze in mouldy rental flats and work for nothing for themselves. I very much resent the proposed u-turn on winter fuel allowance. They’re the most selfish and grasping generation in history and they’ve taken far too much of the country’s wealth already.

That's interesting. Can you point us to a source for your comment about what so-called 'baby boomers' were 'happy to watch'? How do you know they were happy?

What do/did you personally do about people younger than you in poor accommodation? Also, what exactly have you turned down that you were entitled to? Most people just live their lives doing the best they can to provide for their families. When non-means-tested child benefit was available, of course people claimed it. How was that 'grasping' and against what are you measuring 'graspiness' so that you can say 'boomers' are more grasping than any other generation in history?

TheignT · 03/06/2025 10:47

Toootss · 03/06/2025 10:29

But they could tweak that - single pensioners with one income get more somehow -but maybe those pensioners have a million pound house.
they need to start from scratch really, the Gov

If one person is eligible they get the £2 or 3 hundred. If you are in a couple you get half each so a couple of pensioners don't get more than a single pensioner.

Dangermoo · 03/06/2025 10:41

Gonepaddling · 03/06/2025 10:38

Once again this is an example of government and media induced intergenerational infighting.

The solution is simple. CB is repaid through tax at a certain level. Why can’t WFA be dealt with similarly.

i understand how younger generations may feel about pensioners receiving WFA and think much of those feelings have been driven by the media.

Older people are portrayed as wealthy boomers, holidaying in the sun, sitting on huge piles of property earned wealth, with large triple locked pensions etc. etc.

For some that may be true, but not for all. And particularly not necessarily for lone women currently in their 70’s, 80’s, 90’s.

We are the generations that experienced Married Womens NI, no Home Responsibilities protection (NI credits) when children were young, being locked out of Private Pension funds because we were women, the changing of Pension age with very little notice etc. People in their late 70’s and above are also on a lower basic Pension provision than later generations.

When you add the facts that Supplementary Benefit was often the only route for women through a Divorce system that was heavily in a mans favour in terms of the division of financial assets and it is easy to see why there are so many struggling Women pensioners.

However, I have yet to hear any of my friends in this situation bemoaning their lot. They quietly turned off the heating last winter and replaced it with blankets. As generations before them will have done.

I honestly think we need to understand where all the hype from WFA is coming from. It is media driven and induced by a clumsy government that has no idea of how to create a balanced and fair tax regime. Yes pensioners voted with their feet at the last election round but many of them only did so because of media hysteria.

I hate, and I dont use that word lightly, HATE the current pitting of generations one against the other. It is constant, you cant read a newspaper, listen to a political programme or even sit around a lunch table without the subject of rich boomers, or lazy feckless benefit recipients being broached.

What needs to happen is that the government stops knee jerking with their taxation and benefit mechanisms. Devise a system that is fair for all sectors of society and stick to it. For those on WFA who are deemed not to need it, tax it away like CB, but don’t just whip away a benefit that was important to some cohorts. Recognise that some are in a situation of need because of their own specific experiences at the hands of a society that was far less fair to women in the past.

A refreshingly wonderful, nuanced post.

TheignT · 03/06/2025 10:41

FloweryCactus · 03/06/2025 08:51

They means test child benefit (in a very crude and unfair way) - if they can do that, why not do exactly the same for pensioners and the WF allowance? If there's a higher rate taxpayer in the house, it gets clawed back.

I think the cost of means testing v savings would be very different. They always quote £300 a year but I only ever got £100, as husband claimed we got half each. So means testing would have to be pretty cheap to make a savings. How much is CB? Much more than £100 year I s.uspect

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 03/06/2025 10:40

BIossomtoes · 03/06/2025 10:36

Derailing to say good to see you back @ArseInTheCoOpWindow, I missed you.

Thank you.

Ive got Long Covid. Screens can be impossible sometimes.

Gonepaddling · 03/06/2025 10:38

Once again this is an example of government and media induced intergenerational infighting.

The solution is simple. CB is repaid through tax at a certain level. Why can’t WFA be dealt with similarly.

i understand how younger generations may feel about pensioners receiving WFA and think much of those feelings have been driven by the media.

Older people are portrayed as wealthy boomers, holidaying in the sun, sitting on huge piles of property earned wealth, with large triple locked pensions etc. etc.

For some that may be true, but not for all. And particularly not necessarily for lone women currently in their 70’s, 80’s, 90’s.

We are the generations that experienced Married Womens NI, no Home Responsibilities protection (NI credits) when children were young, being locked out of Private Pension funds because we were women, the changing of Pension age with very little notice etc. People in their late 70’s and above are also on a lower basic Pension provision than later generations.

When you add the facts that Supplementary Benefit was often the only route for women through a Divorce system that was heavily in a mans favour in terms of the division of financial assets and it is easy to see why there are so many struggling Women pensioners.

However, I have yet to hear any of my friends in this situation bemoaning their lot. They quietly turned off the heating last winter and replaced it with blankets. As generations before them will have done.

I honestly think we need to understand where all the hype from WFA is coming from. It is media driven and induced by a clumsy government that has no idea of how to create a balanced and fair tax regime. Yes pensioners voted with their feet at the last election round but many of them only did so because of media hysteria.

I hate, and I dont use that word lightly, HATE the current pitting of generations one against the other. It is constant, you cant read a newspaper, listen to a political programme or even sit around a lunch table without the subject of rich boomers, or lazy feckless benefit recipients being broached.

What needs to happen is that the government stops knee jerking with their taxation and benefit mechanisms. Devise a system that is fair for all sectors of society and stick to it. For those on WFA who are deemed not to need it, tax it away like CB, but don’t just whip away a benefit that was important to some cohorts. Recognise that some are in a situation of need because of their own specific experiences at the hands of a society that was far less fair to women in the past.

BIossomtoes · 03/06/2025 10:36

Derailing to say good to see you back @ArseInTheCoOpWindow, I missed you.

Toootss · 03/06/2025 10:29

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 03/06/2025 09:49

And 23% of single women pensioners live in poverty.

But they could tweak that - single pensioners with one income get more somehow -but maybe those pensioners have a million pound house.
they need to start from scratch really, the Gov

nomoreforks · 03/06/2025 10:26

I think they are just adjusting the minimum which was too low. Seems fair enough as the minimum limit was causing some poorer pensioners problems. Sounds like the richer pensioners still won't get it.

Whatafustercluck · 03/06/2025 10:25

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 03/06/2025 09:49

And 23% of single women pensioners live in poverty.

Both of these things can be true at the same time though, which is presumably why the government is reviewing it. It cannot be right that very wealthy pensioners receive it, or that very poor pensioners do not receive it.

Smallsalt · 03/06/2025 10:03

Its a funny kind of broke in the UK , because there is plenty of money and perks available when the government want there to be.
Instead of hunting down the people scamming a few bob off the dole, how about putting the same effort into collecting from corporate tax dodgers.
Give the pensioners their money. Its shit being old and we all will be some day.

ShesTheAlbatross · 03/06/2025 10:02

caringcarer · 03/06/2025 09:41

The reason many boomers don't downsize is the crippling rate of CGT RR has imposed.

If you own one house that you live in, you don’t pay any CGT.
Do you mean stamp duty?

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 03/06/2025 10:00

Unpaidviewer · 03/06/2025 09:57

Its not just the expectations and demands on the state that is the issue but also people's expectations of what is a normal lifestyle. I have seen news clips, SM posts and post on here debating this. And some of the requirements are ridiculous. I can't feel sorry for someone who can "only" afford to put their heating on for an hour in the morning and a couple in the evening or those who are "only" heating the rooms they use because I thought we were all doing that anyway? Same for having to wear jumpers indoors, using hotwater bottles, not eating meat all week, buying secondhand etc.

No, this isn’t normal.

Life was good in the 90’s and 2000’s. People should be able to earn enough to heat their house how they want. This used to be normal. I knew no one except my elderly dm who used hot water bottles.

l was a single parent in the late 90’s. I had money to keep my house toasty and do fun stuff. I was a teacher, so not highly paid.

Unpaidviewer · 03/06/2025 09:57

Bowlandbillow · 02/06/2025 21:15

I am watching BBC Panorama, ‘Is Britain broke?’ On now.
it is discussing why there is no money. Governments have been scared to tackle the huge demand on money from all Departments. People expect more than ever. The state is struggling to meet our expectations so those expectations have to change,
They case studied a woman, a single mother with a teenage daughter, who had just started a new job as an admin person in a law firm. She explained that she could only work part time because she was a mother ( of a teenage daughter). She cried when she described having to use a food bank but it didn’t appear to make her think she should work full time.
The programme compared the demands on the Welfare State when it was founded, to the demands on it today. It suggested that the current spending pattern cannot continue. It high lighted the cancer treatments that can no longer be funded because the Welfare Bill is so high. We cannot have it all.
There are an awful lot of posters who believe in money trees which don’t exist in real life.

Its not just the expectations and demands on the state that is the issue but also people's expectations of what is a normal lifestyle. I have seen news clips, SM posts and post on here debating this. And some of the requirements are ridiculous. I can't feel sorry for someone who can "only" afford to put their heating on for an hour in the morning and a couple in the evening or those who are "only" heating the rooms they use because I thought we were all doing that anyway? Same for having to wear jumpers indoors, using hotwater bottles, not eating meat all week, buying secondhand etc.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 03/06/2025 09:56

The baby boomers have been quite happy to watch everyone younger than themselves freeze in mouldy rental flats and work for nothing for themselves.

Im at the end of the baby boom. 6 months later l’d be in Gen x

No, ive never felt like that.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 03/06/2025 09:49

THEP0PE · 02/06/2025 22:12

I totally agree. 1 in 4 pensioners are millionaires. They don’t need the bloody allowance

And 23% of single women pensioners live in poverty.

BIossomtoes · 03/06/2025 09:47

caringcarer · 03/06/2025 09:41

The reason many boomers don't downsize is the crippling rate of CGT RR has imposed.

You don’t pay CGT on your main residence. 🤷‍♀️

caringcarer · 03/06/2025 09:41

matresense · 03/06/2025 08:39

Surely the position of sanity is to do it as a council tax rebate for the poorest, ie for those in bands A-C or whatever - could easily be done on a sliding scale and take into account whether someone was a solo occupant. Councils have this information, central government can change their grants accordingly. Requires little admin. Yes, it will mean that those with low incomes in massive houses will miss out, but then it’s not unreasonable to expect people to take that into account in weighing up whether to downsize.

The reason many boomers don't downsize is the crippling rate of CGT RR has imposed.

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 03/06/2025 09:19

I agree to an extent.

I think reversing the 2 child cap should have come first (this doesn’t affect me for context).

I’m all for these things being universal in theory, but not cherry picking what will be universal. Child benefit should go back to being universal if this one is - or if not, should be based on household not individual income.

sualipa · 03/06/2025 09:17

Bowlandbillow · 02/06/2025 21:15

I am watching BBC Panorama, ‘Is Britain broke?’ On now.
it is discussing why there is no money. Governments have been scared to tackle the huge demand on money from all Departments. People expect more than ever. The state is struggling to meet our expectations so those expectations have to change,
They case studied a woman, a single mother with a teenage daughter, who had just started a new job as an admin person in a law firm. She explained that she could only work part time because she was a mother ( of a teenage daughter). She cried when she described having to use a food bank but it didn’t appear to make her think she should work full time.
The programme compared the demands on the Welfare State when it was founded, to the demands on it today. It suggested that the current spending pattern cannot continue. It high lighted the cancer treatments that can no longer be funded because the Welfare Bill is so high. We cannot have it all.
There are an awful lot of posters who believe in money trees which don’t exist in real life.

In China they cut their billionaires down to size - a few billion is regarded as enough the state wants the rest. In the free west our tech bros trillionaires or near ones are busy hollowing out our societies and making rockets as a new car to show off with. Meanwhile we nickel and dime the old as greedy.Truth be told the west is in terminal decline now beset by increasing unsustainable debt, vast welfare state entitlements for all and a collapse of our manufacturing base that we outshored to the east which has none of those structural problems.

BangersAndGnash · 03/06/2025 09:08

They won’t do a complete U turn.

They will find a new threshold, which is the right thing to do.

Living on state pension if you are a single householder is very very tight. 100% of all overheads, bills, maintenance, and 75% of council tax.

All much easier even if there are two of you just on state pension.

BadAmbassador · 03/06/2025 09:05

@BIossomtoes
That’s lovely to hear 😊
I’m sure many people are quietly doing that but it gets lost in all the noise about not letting the old people have too much because it’s not faiiiiir 🤣

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