To resent the U-turn on winter fuel allowance?

@PhilippaGeorgiou
Yes, all those old people who have worked all their lives and now struggle to manage should definitely be a lot more ambitious and self-reliant. they wouldn't be trapped in poverty. It's a real shame we closed the pits, because we could have sent the pensioners down to learn about ambition and self-reliance.
You seem to have completely misunderstood my point, which is that means-testing is a way of keeping people down, as the minute they earn more than what someone else decrees they 'need' they are penalised, so are better off not working overtime or paying into a pension. IMO people should be able to better their lives and not find themselves worse off than if they hadn't.

I am in no way saying that pensioners are not (or have not been) ambitious and/or self-reliant. My very point is that if they were, and now have slightly more than they 'need' they are kept in their place, which is at a subsistence level. Heaven forbid they get more than they 'need'. I feel the same about young people - it's means-testing I object to, and I am not casting aspersions on anyone's lifestyles, so there is no need for the sarky comments about opening the pits.

I agree. I’d very much like to see the two child cap lifted.

Fantastic job of not resenting anything at all there. Would have maybe worked better if you had not mentioned offering their son (who is not your husband) money when he has a professional job and is not short of money. Would you have been more or less not resentful if they were offering your husband money?

The problem is whether we can afford both universal WFA and child benefit for bigger families than 2. If we cannot afford both, then I think child benefit is more important. And they have put that on the back burner. Playing old people off against children is nasty politics.
Elderly who need it should get it but if they want to play this well politically, absolutely there should be an obligation to repay and opt in, just like child benefit.

I would. Lots of them pay you to help them, don’t they?

I‘m with you OP. The only pensioners I know are well off. They’re all on cruises, west end shows, out for meals and rubbing my face in it. I will be working until I’m dead as won’t be able to afford to retire as I haven’t got the advantage of the lifetime pension that kicks in at 55 and I will probably need to make the sandwiches for my wake.

It’s funny that it’s too expensive to means test benefits for pensioners, but not for parents.

I think it depends on the details of the policy. I am a pensioner I don't need the winter fuel allowance but some people just above the threshold do.
I supported the policy to take it away. But the cut off was much too blunt.
So I support raising the threshold so more people can claim it. But keeping it means tested so those who won't need it are not eligible

And yet 15% are in poverty

Rubbish you were told about the changes to pension ages unless you lived in the Moon! The first announcement was in 1991, 1995,2007,2011, 2013! So stop the nonsense that I you had no notice of the changes!

You wouldn't believe the sheer number of people doing all kinds of financial and legal gymnastics to avoid care home fees. Just because you don't doesn't mean that no one does.

Probably because the amount of wealth available is finite and one person having one thing means less for someone else. Working families are also under a lot of pressure from the cost of living, so it's not unreasonable that if they are expected to give up their money through taxes it is spent on the people that really need it, not those that don't.

The biggest burden to the tax payer is the state pension

Nail on the head. They seem to think that tax/nic is some kind of savings scheme where they're going to get it all back. Completely ignoring all the public services that they've used/enjoyed throughout their life, from education to roads to NHS to security/policing, to social services, etc etc. The average person takes out more than they put in, but they just don't want to hear it! The whole thing is unsustainable and has been unsustainable for decades.

Of course you will 🤣 people like you say that because you know there is no way of paying it back! You do realise that the threshold for not getting pension credits is very low! The biggest burden to the tax payer is those on benefits, so perhaps we should stop those?

I am a pensioner, paid into the state all my working life, shafted by government, had no notice of having to work till 66..I think if your pensions or investments are over £20,00 a year, you don't need the winter fuel. Easy to manage, taxman knows income. I however do not have that income, but am too rich apparently to be eligible for pension credit..

They also think the taxpayer should pay for their care home fees and their assets should be protected so they can be passed on as an inheritance.

Do “they”? I don’t, our savings are referred to as “the care home fund”.

I agree with you too OP. I'd be perfectly OK if they wanted to raise the threshold (which I think is essentially what they'll end up doing, it won't be completely reversed). But the truth is it equates to £16 or £25 per month, depending on circumstances and the people that aren't getting it are not freezing over this amount of money. Utility companies aren't cutting off customers who are £16/£25 short on their energy bills.

And there are still hundreds of thousands of people not claiming the PC they're entitled to.

Younger pensioners are the wealthiest group in the UK. And the ones bleating that they’ll freeze to death on Facebook.

So many older people think like this. They spent their life criticising benefit recipients but somehow see what they get in old age as a right. Not a benefit. They also think the taxpayer should pay for their care home fees and their assets should be protected so they can be passed on as an inheritance. But they don’t see the irony. The cognitive dissonance is strong

You are right.
It should never have been set up the way it was.
The government knows how much pensioners have to live, because they are taxed if they go over a threshold, so it should be easy to means test.
My parents were just above the threshold to receive it, but it wasn't a big drama for them.

• Not all pensioners are wealthy. It is just daft to suggest overwise

• They have not said that the payment will be restored for everyone, just that they will likely rise the income threshold where people can claim. They set it too low and single pensioner who get 12k a year can no longer receive it. Do you think people on 12k or 15K are wealthy?

I never understand why so many people in this country want a race to the bottom when it comes to supporting elderly and vulnerable or sick people.

To be honest I just can't get annoyed about a generation that has paid into the system and worked all their lives getting some financial perks at the end of it. I work hard, it's hard. we're all trying to make ends meet. That's why I think they've earnt it. The government is wasting money on so much other things such as HS2, their own expenses etc. they just need get a better grip on things.

I thought the same as you @Bowlandbillow about the programme last night. Who on earth thinks they can support themselves and a teenager on 1 part time wage? I did wonder by they didn’t ask her about working FT as it seemed really obvious to me.

Absolutely! I just hope the poster is saving enough for her retirement.