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To think car ownership is out of control in the UK

657 replies

JacquesHarlow · 02/06/2025 13:27

I fully expect to get a vast majority of "YABU" comments, but here goes:

Firstly, before I get flamed - I am a woman, a car owner, and yes I have a driveway now (though didn't before). I am a car enthusiast in terms of the enjoyment I've got from driving and I don't have an issue with "cars" per se.

What I have an issue with is how ridiculous Britain's councils and governments are on car ownership. How cheap car ownership is. How anyone can distort the living environment around them with their choices.

Have you driven down a suburban street lately, or even an urban one?

Small and narrow Victorian streets with lines of cars packed on either side, and only room for one vehicle to drive down it. Why so many cars? The houses have been there for 150 years. Why now?

And because so many people (often fellow women, annoyingly) don't ever like reversing, you find yourself caught in the middle, having to reverse right back to the end of the street to start again.

School runs are chaos - so many cars, parking up in illegal or careless ways, purely to save a short distance walking.

And the size of cars! Absurdly large vehicles which then take up more road space on the kerbside. Yeah it is "legal" but in a decade where theoretically we want to get better as a country environmentally, most people do not give two fucks as long as their precious DCs are "safe" (you're just as safe in a NCAP 5* rated Yaris as you are in a Merc GLS, but try telling that to people where I live).

So this is the madness of today:

Cars are SO much bigger. And thanks to PCP they're cheaper - and this is why I see so many cars where I live ,and up north when I visit, and everywhere else. The PCP monthlies thing keys right into the British obsession of wanting to look and feel wealthy. Years ago a Golf or an Audi A3 would be considered posh for a family. But why would I buy a Golf when my monthly payments could get me into something BIGGER!

The one thing that isn't bigger, is the United Kingdom. I've seen councils in London paint "parking lines" half on the pavement so that people can park up on either side to let cars past. I've seen people in these Discoveries and Defenders mount kerbs at drop off time without a thought or care for who might be behind them or even aware of this being an issue.

And you can have 1 household in a street of 20 houses own 5 cars. You do the maths as to how much of the available parking is then taken away.

Why are people so aggressive and discourteous in their car ownership? What are we going to do about this?

Some of us remember 20 or 30 years ago when you could drive to another street and not have to face a x5 barrelling towards you, parked cars either side? With a tiny woman peering over the steering wheel refusing to reverse back into the space immediately behind her? But powering through so that you, in your little hatchback, have to reverse 10 car lengths to accommodate her ego and lack of driving skill?

Our city and town streets are not made for X5s, Discoveries, Range Rover Sports, and god knows what else, to be parked along the kerbside blocking out the light into tiny terraced houses.

How do we put a stop to this? I love the Japanese principle in certain cities where you have to name a parking space you own or have access to before you buy a car. Could this work here?

AIBU? How will we ever wean ourselves off this 'bigger is better, and every member of my family must have a car' mentality?

OP posts:
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DdraigGoch · 07/06/2025 22:16

Badbadbunny · 02/06/2025 14:03

The parents probably have to get to work and don't have the time to walk back from school again once they've dropped off their little darling(s). Especially if their work is miles away from home/school.

The secondary I went to had a very small catchment. No more than 1.5 miles. No reason that secondary kids need a lift for that sort of distance (save the minority with disabilities). Yet every day the streets would be clogged with hundreds of cars dropping the kids off in dangerous places. I cycled from the very edge of the catchment, rain or shine.

DdraigGoch · 07/06/2025 21:58

but I do hate the way so many roads are clogged with parked cars that make navigating cities, towns & villages so difficult.

Walking around Palermo yesterday, trying to navigate around the parked cars was a nightmare. They were parked almost everywhere, bar a couple of pedestrianised streets. You'd never get to plonk a garden shed on public land for free so why do people expect free parking for a car? The noise is ridiculous too, though not as bad as Naples.

In my village there are too many cars too. I hate having to dodge in between them when a car passes (no pavement, or if there is one it's blocked by parked cars). Ambulances struggle to get through, so the problem is genuinely dangerous. Some people try to block off "their" spaces with cones. Eggs got thrown at the car of the last one to try that. I sold my car and bought a bicycle.

To those Londoners who say that permits cost £6-700 per year, I could point out that the space could be worth anything from £25k-£250k so if you were renting it commercially you'd be paying at least three times the current rate.

I do like the Japanese approach of banning overnight parking - if you want to store your private property overnight, you should own or lease the land.

As for poor public transport? Guess what the buses are stuck behind when they're running late? Cars. Can't cycle to work/school/shops because it's too dangerous? Cars again.

CrochetHooked · 07/06/2025 14:51

Badbadbunny · 07/06/2025 07:37

Yup, we have a new by pass that’s only about 5 miles long but took several years to build, cost tens of millions over budget, and has a badly offset roundabout that causes regular crashes and has a special extra lane that’s never even been opened to traffic. Weird traffic light phasing at each end causing regular crashes. The whole thing was a monumental cock up. Still not properly finished years later!

Local to me, we had a cock-up with repairs to a bridge over a railway, because someone had ordered the wrong size parts.

JenniferBooth · 07/06/2025 14:30

Its like a job creation scheme, why do a decent build or repair when a shoddy one will mean they have to return a few months later

Exactly the same as what is happening in social housing.

taxguru · 07/06/2025 11:29

Alexandra2001 · 07/06/2025 07:54

The corruption or incompetence in planning/construction and the firms that deliver it for councils and govt is endemic....
Its like a job creation scheme, why do a decent build or repair when a shoddy one will mean they have to return a few months later?

A traffic Island for parents to cross the road near school local to me, was eventually built at great cost and long traffic delays.... many people said it was in the wrong place... but the council still went ahead... months later, it has been removed - it prevented the local bus turning left on its route!

the repair to otherwise good tarmac is awful, a series of potholes in the waiting but never mind, they'll get paid very well for that fix... which wont last.

With our by-pass, it needed a huge bridge (6 lanes) across a river. Land on one side was far higher than the other so it is a sloping bridge on a hill. When they brought in the huge bridge sections (pre-fabricated off site), for which they needed a couple of specialist cranes that have to be booked months in advance, the sections weren't long enough! Delayed the whole thing by about a year. Apparently, the "engineer" who designed the bridges didn't account for the length to be longer than the direct width (bank to bank) - must have missed the basic GCSE trigonometry lessons that the hypoteneuse is longer than the base of a triangle, which is basically what the bridge is, being on a slope rather than level!

Alexandra2001 · 07/06/2025 07:54

Badbadbunny · 07/06/2025 07:37

Yup, we have a new by pass that’s only about 5 miles long but took several years to build, cost tens of millions over budget, and has a badly offset roundabout that causes regular crashes and has a special extra lane that’s never even been opened to traffic. Weird traffic light phasing at each end causing regular crashes. The whole thing was a monumental cock up. Still not properly finished years later!

The corruption or incompetence in planning/construction and the firms that deliver it for councils and govt is endemic....
Its like a job creation scheme, why do a decent build or repair when a shoddy one will mean they have to return a few months later?

A traffic Island for parents to cross the road near school local to me, was eventually built at great cost and long traffic delays.... many people said it was in the wrong place... but the council still went ahead... months later, it has been removed - it prevented the local bus turning left on its route!

the repair to otherwise good tarmac is awful, a series of potholes in the waiting but never mind, they'll get paid very well for that fix... which wont last.

scalt · 07/06/2025 07:52

Simple solution to Dutch flooding: a little boy sticking his finger in a hole in a dyke (or whatever they’re called now), and staying there all night.

Sorry, I couldn’t resist it,

Badbadbunny · 07/06/2025 07:37

Alexandra2001 · 07/06/2025 07:25

Have you been to Holland? huge issues with flooding... and what about all the other European countries that have built rail systems at a 1/3 of the cost that HS has cost the UK?
Yes we have expensive land costs but that doesn't explain the huge time delays we have in almost everything, the 8 miles of A30 recently built in Cornwall.. massively over budget, huge time delays and fuck ups in construction..... meaning further closures to put right these issues, they even laid the wrong tarmac, had to be dug up....

The UK just doesn't have the skills in civil engineering or planning anymore.

Yup, we have a new by pass that’s only about 5 miles long but took several years to build, cost tens of millions over budget, and has a badly offset roundabout that causes regular crashes and has a special extra lane that’s never even been opened to traffic. Weird traffic light phasing at each end causing regular crashes. The whole thing was a monumental cock up. Still not properly finished years later!

Alexandra2001 · 07/06/2025 07:25

Elbowpatch · 06/06/2025 15:25

It might not be just that, but it is mainly that. If you don’t have to build tunnels, cuttings, embankments, viaducts and bridges, the cost falls dramatically.

Luckily, we had engineers who knew how to build bridges and create viaducts/embankments, etc.

We still do.

Edited

Have you been to Holland? huge issues with flooding... and what about all the other European countries that have built rail systems at a 1/3 of the cost that HS has cost the UK?
Yes we have expensive land costs but that doesn't explain the huge time delays we have in almost everything, the 8 miles of A30 recently built in Cornwall.. massively over budget, huge time delays and fuck ups in construction..... meaning further closures to put right these issues, they even laid the wrong tarmac, had to be dug up....

The UK just doesn't have the skills in civil engineering or planning anymore.

LameBorzoi · 06/06/2025 22:35

Elbowpatch · 06/06/2025 15:25

It might not be just that, but it is mainly that. If you don’t have to build tunnels, cuttings, embankments, viaducts and bridges, the cost falls dramatically.

Luckily, we had engineers who knew how to build bridges and create viaducts/embankments, etc.

We still do.

Edited

France managed to build a decent network.

GRex · 06/06/2025 18:11

Elbowpatch · 06/06/2025 15:25

It might not be just that, but it is mainly that. If you don’t have to build tunnels, cuttings, embankments, viaducts and bridges, the cost falls dramatically.

Luckily, we had engineers who knew how to build bridges and create viaducts/embankments, etc.

We still do.

Edited

This. Also there's also much higher cost of residential land that projects like HS2 need to include.

Elbowpatch · 06/06/2025 15:25

Badbadbunny · 06/06/2025 10:53

It's not just that at all. The Victorians managed to build a World leading railway network a couple of hundred years ago that managed to go through hills and across valleys. Luckily, we had engineers who knew how to build bridges and create viaducts/embankments, etc.

Infrastructure problems in the UK are systemic and nothing to do with geography. We have far too much built in incompetence and fraud throughout all the stages involved.

It might not be just that, but it is mainly that. If you don’t have to build tunnels, cuttings, embankments, viaducts and bridges, the cost falls dramatically.

Luckily, we had engineers who knew how to build bridges and create viaducts/embankments, etc.

We still do.

Badbadbunny · 06/06/2025 10:53

Elbowpatch · 06/06/2025 08:30

I don't believe is has anything to do with the SE and density, other countries such as Holland can build rail at half the cost it is in the UK….

Holland is flat…

It's not just that at all. The Victorians managed to build a World leading railway network a couple of hundred years ago that managed to go through hills and across valleys. Luckily, we had engineers who knew how to build bridges and create viaducts/embankments, etc.

Infrastructure problems in the UK are systemic and nothing to do with geography. We have far too much built in incompetence and fraud throughout all the stages involved.

Elbowpatch · 06/06/2025 08:30

I don't believe is has anything to do with the SE and density, other countries such as Holland can build rail at half the cost it is in the UK….

Holland is flat…

Alexandra2001 · 06/06/2025 07:17

crackofdoom · 05/06/2025 17:38

Hmmmm....kind of. In that building a brand new high speed line across the SE (rather than upgrading existing lines) was always going to be expensive and problematic. But bear in mind that our only actual stretch of high speed line to date (that the Eurostars don't get up to full speed on anyway) runs from London to Kent, and that got upgraded OK!

I've also been on Eurostars and ICEs reaching top speeds in northern France, Belgium and the Netherlands, which are all densely populated areas.

I think upgrading the existing mainlines to the - far emptier- corners of the UK would be a better plan.

Edited

I don't believe is has anything to do with the SE and density, other countries such as Holland can build rail at half the cost it is in the UK....

HS2 proves beyond doubt that the UK has lost the ability to build infrastructure, look at the Bat Tunnel.... £100m!! ignoring the loss of habitat all over the UK... & it's not just HS2, its across both private and public sectors.

Then the project was cancelled, at a cost of £28 billion... UK defence budget is £54billion...

The waste that has occurred with our taxes is beyond belief, done properly, we should have great public transport for what we spend.

MintChocCat · 05/06/2025 21:02

I live in the South East. It’s a 45-50 min train ride into London but that can cost me anything between £27-£40 depending on the time of day (that’s for a return). Absolutely ludicrous, and for a totally shoddy service. Delays. Cramped. No guarantee of a seat. Ridiculously filthy. Lack of working and hygienic toilets.

I echo what everyone else has said on this thread. There must be more investment into public transport, especially trains. I wish parts of our country or the majority of the country COULD be like Copenhagen.

FatherFrosty · 05/06/2025 20:40

I think upgrading the existing mainlines to the - far emptier- corners of the UK would be a better plan.

i absolutely agree. Especially seeing the complete decimation of wildlife for hs2.

crackofdoom · 05/06/2025 17:38

FatherFrosty · 05/06/2025 17:05

I believe it’s to do with our built up little island meaning the trains can’t safely get up speed. Like hs2 only saving 20 mins on the current journey. When it was initially conceived it was going to save a lot more, and more so on the ongoing links.
obviously that’s all been lost partly due to the realities of uk geography and spiralling costs.

id love to use trains more, they are just so damn expensive and unreliable

Hmmmm....kind of. In that building a brand new high speed line across the SE (rather than upgrading existing lines) was always going to be expensive and problematic. But bear in mind that our only actual stretch of high speed line to date (that the Eurostars don't get up to full speed on anyway) runs from London to Kent, and that got upgraded OK!

I've also been on Eurostars and ICEs reaching top speeds in northern France, Belgium and the Netherlands, which are all densely populated areas.

I think upgrading the existing mainlines to the - far emptier- corners of the UK would be a better plan.

Redpeach · 05/06/2025 17:30

FatherFrosty · 05/06/2025 17:05

I believe it’s to do with our built up little island meaning the trains can’t safely get up speed. Like hs2 only saving 20 mins on the current journey. When it was initially conceived it was going to save a lot more, and more so on the ongoing links.
obviously that’s all been lost partly due to the realities of uk geography and spiralling costs.

id love to use trains more, they are just so damn expensive and unreliable

Cars are expensive and traffic unreliable.

FatherFrosty · 05/06/2025 17:05

crackofdoom · 05/06/2025 13:22

True. I'm going Interrailing with the kids in Europe this summer. "How fast are the fast trains in Germany mum?" "300kph, same as everywhere else in Western Europe apart from the UK, son" 🙄. but then we're going to Romania and Bulgaria, where the trains go pretty much at walking pace

I believe it’s to do with our built up little island meaning the trains can’t safely get up speed. Like hs2 only saving 20 mins on the current journey. When it was initially conceived it was going to save a lot more, and more so on the ongoing links.
obviously that’s all been lost partly due to the realities of uk geography and spiralling costs.

id love to use trains more, they are just so damn expensive and unreliable

Elbowpatch · 05/06/2025 16:41

crackofdoom · 05/06/2025 13:22

True. I'm going Interrailing with the kids in Europe this summer. "How fast are the fast trains in Germany mum?" "300kph, same as everywhere else in Western Europe apart from the UK, son" 🙄. but then we're going to Romania and Bulgaria, where the trains go pretty much at walking pace

Speed isn’t everything. German railways have a terrible reputation.

Where it all went wrong for Germany’s railways

As Bremen Hauptbahnhof is named the worst station in Europe, here’s how Germany’s rail network fell from grace – and how it might be revived

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/europe/germany/germanys-railway-network-worst-station-europe/

crackofdoom · 05/06/2025 13:22

LameBorzoi · 05/06/2025 11:11

Yeah. If we actually invested in trains, though, they'd be faster for some journeys.

True. I'm going Interrailing with the kids in Europe this summer. "How fast are the fast trains in Germany mum?" "300kph, same as everywhere else in Western Europe apart from the UK, son" 🙄. but then we're going to Romania and Bulgaria, where the trains go pretty much at walking pace

LameBorzoi · 05/06/2025 12:53

Elbowpatch · 05/06/2025 12:33

I assume you missed the bit about changing drivers.

You said "might". Anyway, you should really get out and have a good walk around to stay alert.

Anyway, having a good 15 to 20 minute break every 2 hours or so of driving has made a huge difference to travelling. I arrive far less knackered than I used to back when the only break was standing at a bowser or swapping drivers.

Elbowpatch · 05/06/2025 12:33

LameBorzoi · 05/06/2025 11:55

@Elbowpatch
@butterflies898

Fatigue has a similar effect on the brain to alcohol (with regards to road safety). It increases the probability of accidents, and the fatality of accidents.

Regularly driving for stretches greater than two hours without proper rest breaks puts you and everyone else at risk.

Please do not drive without proper breaks. Driving tired is like driving drunk.

Edited

I assume you missed the bit about changing drivers.

LameBorzoi · 05/06/2025 11:55

@Elbowpatch
@butterflies898

Fatigue has a similar effect on the brain to alcohol (with regards to road safety). It increases the probability of accidents, and the fatality of accidents.

Regularly driving for stretches greater than two hours without proper rest breaks puts you and everyone else at risk.

Please do not drive without proper breaks. Driving tired is like driving drunk.