To think asking people if they have grandchildren is like asking if they are pregnant - just don't!

I wasn’t surrounded by people having kids in their 20s. I said originally some family members (mother, aunt and grandmother) were grandmothers in their 40s. All middle class and privately educated with degrees, married and professional job by their late 20/30s.

No one is saying women don’t have kids in their 30/40s at all. They are saying that either they have done that are their parents or know people have done that. I think you need to speak to the posters agreeing with op who can’t seem to grasp that yes some women will have a different life to them. But you’ve jumped on the people that are disagreeing saying that no this is not my experience. If you want to give a different perspective then interact with all the comments not just those you disagree with.

Yes, although I have to say I am quite a senior manager and have hired a number career returners (often older than me, with children younger than mine, but I know I was fortunate personally and professionally). It frustrates me to hear that women still have difficulty getting back into the work place because I never see a career gap (for family or indeed other reasons) as a negative on a CV, and I am always happy to accommodate flexible working requests and support childcare emergencies. It's very maddening to hear there are still employers out there who make it hard for women to return to their career .

Yes of course I’m going off what my employer says (NHS) and yes the NHS ask women if they still menstruate or could they be pregnant past child bearing age. Why is that so hard for you to understand? I’m merely a solider and have no control over the questions that we must ask, I don’t make the rules but need to ask the questions. I get asked questions when I see my doctor/nurse that are absolutely not relevant to me, but I know that they need to ask them and document them. You got an issue then complain to the NHS but really they don’t care.

Op said she doesn’t know the colleague, but the colleague knows she has kids but doesn’t know their ages. It was merely small talk. I work with lots of people and have no idea about their lives apart from those who I work closely with. I think the people agreeing with op are probably the same age and therefore maybe sensitive as they think grandmother means old, which op admitted too. It really isn’t a big deal.

@Catinthereallysmallhat it really isn’t hard for me to understand. I’ve been saying that all along. I have repeatedly said that this is my experience and that it is different to the perspectives of those who say that I am the minority or that I am wrong. But I’ve never once said that the experience of younger mums was wrong or that your experience of being surrounded by people having babies in their 20s was wrong or that you were incorrect. I’ve just endlessly stated that it is different. And that I live in a different place to where you live and have experienced a difference in peer groups. And I have also encouraged different perspectives being accepted! Many people do have kids in their 20s and become grandparents in their 40s yes but many people become parents in their 30s and grandparents in their 60s or 70s. You are the one who keeps saying I am just wrong and that most people who have kids around me will be younger and I know that it won’t be. I know it will be balanced in age across 20s and late 30s.

Those comments are in response to people saying that it is the norm to be mistaken for a grandmother at 49 because in my circles it isn’t the norm at all. Again, not saying you experience something different or you are wrong, just saying that neither of what we have both experienced is pure fact. It is our different experiences. I’ve also said I have an uncle who became a grandparent at 32. I am well aware of these differences. It doesn’t mean that one is wrong or better. Everyone is different. and that’s a great thing! Who wants to only be surrounded by people who have had the same experience. Life would be very dull.

I am not going to keep going round in circles with you because I’m just saying the same thing since the beginning. There are many different experiences and perspectives on this. So good night and sleep tight and I hope you don’t get mistaken for a granny one day and get offended by it when the time comes! (I joke)

But now you are going with what NHS says. Above 35 is geriatric pregnancy in NHS but according to some posters same NHS asks 64 year old ladies if they are pregnant. Maybe they need to update their forms.

I think we will continue to argue, and perhaps thete is no right or wrong answer. For some, a 49 year old grandmother is a norm, for some it’s too early. We all form our norms based on the world we live in.

I still feel op is not unreasonable because her colleague never asked about her kids and jumped to the grandkids question. If she did she would have known that children are 16,18. And then based on what is normal to her she would have decided if it was still worth asking if 16 and 18 are parents yet or not.

Should also say many women in their 30/40s who leave their job to raise kids for a few years have trouble getting back into employment in their previous field.

Just because you wait and don’t have kids until you’re 30s, doesn’t mean you’re educated, successful or in a professional job. Look at all the threads on here by women in their 30/40s whose husbands have left them and they have no prospects. It just means you’re broke and older.

The average age of first-time mothers in England and Wales was 28.8 years in 2017, while the average age of all fathers was to 33.4 years (Birth characteristics in England and Wales: 2017).

When you tend to think of grandparents, you’d be forgiven for picturing someone in their sixties (or even older). In fact, the Office For National Statistics (ONS) suggests the average age for becoming a grandparent in the UK is rising.
Between 2017 and 2018, the average age people became grandparents was 63. Yet in 2009 to 2010, it was 60 years old.

And 74% posters voting YABU does not necessarily mean that’s the norm. It can also mean that there are a lot of posters here who had kids young or who became grandparents young.

How old are you? No one on here is saying that as soon as you hit 40+ everyone is going to assume you’re a grandmother.

The fact is 35 is considered a geriatric pregnancy. So anyone older than 35 is considered an older mother. Premenopausal age range starts at 30-40 and menopause can start between 45-55, and can also start earlier or later. Yes it’s getting more common to have kids later on in life but many people have kids in their 20s and many people become grandparents in their late 40/50s. I don’t see why that is so hard for you to understand, just because you haven’t experienced this doesn’t mean other people haven’t.

Education is highly important to my family too. We just see education as a lifelong thing and not incompatible with starting a family in our twenties.

I mean, by 23 I had two first class degrees under my belt so I figured I had a sort of half decent base level of education before I started my family.. but just to be on the safe side I did a post grad qualification alongside my professional job before starting a family at 27. My mum did one degree pre children, did some bonus a levels while she was a stay at home mum and then a second degree and a masters once she was in her thirties...

My friends and contacts also come from my professional and university life and I would say many of them (particularly those of us with wealthier parents) were having babies by our late twenties. Maybe I bonded more with those a similar age to me, but there were about 5 of us at my work (all well paid highly qualified professionals) who became very close as we had children at similar ages so were often on maternity leave together.

I am wrong about not having a 49 old grandmother in my circle?
I can’t help that my family gave education a lot of importance and that my friends and social contacts came from my university and professional life, and that most choose to have kids in early 30s and their kids are not ready to have kids in their teens.

If you find that wrong, so be it.

BTW it is also possible to be a great grandmother by age 49, and reading this thread I am sure it is very common in the UK for women to be a great grandmother by age 60, but I would still not ask. I am also not surprised that there is a shortage of skilled staff in the UK and there is a need to full that gap by immigration.

Well this thread got weird! I’d have been offended by that question too OP and I’m older than you.

I don’t quite understand this @Catinthereallysmallhat - I know I do look younger than my age and I know some young people look older but I don’t quite see what you mean here. But that’s not what I’m saying is nasty. I don’t think it’s nasty that people might think that I’m a grandparent at school pick up.

What I think is nasty is that people are insistent that is the experience I will have just because I’m older than being in my 20s when I have my first child.

I don’t know a single person this has happened to and doing the job I do I think I can safely say I’ve met more parents than those who are insistent this will be the case have. And I’ve never once gotten it wrong. I’ve worked across so many early years centres and schools and met 1000s of parents of young children, not one has been mistaken for grandparents and they were certainly not all in their 20s or early 30s.

I mean - the whole point that many people have been trying to get across is that they are likely not thinking you are older. They just have a different sense of how old people are when they become grandmothers. And as many have pointed out, a statistically reasonable one.

That's why people have been pointing out that the OPs sense of when people become grandmothers is biased by her experience, to reassure her that her colleague wasn't implying she was ancient.

Since she says she accepts that, but still thinks it's offensive, it's hard to understand why unless it is something like the class issues, (which were brought up by posters directly saying that women having grand kids in their 40s were unambitous and probably didn't have degrees, so not some kind of imaginary belief.)

This was a thread from October of last year “How old is too old to have a baby” many women sharing their reasons of what age they think is too old and also give their age…

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5209497-how-old-is-too-old-to-have-a-baby

No the first chunk of replies were telling op to get over herself.

There’s been many, many articles wrote about how millennials look younger than gen z’s. Haven’t read any articles how 50s look younger than 40 year olds. That’s not to say some don’t. The 50+ year olds that are famous and I would say have probably had some tweekments look their age. Ie The Realhousewives of Beverly Hills, the ones that are in their 50s look in their 50s, still look good though. I would even argue the ones on their 60s look younger. Jennifer Anniston is 56 looks lovely but I’d say she doesn’t look in her 40s. It isn’t nasty that’s my opinion.

I’d say people have free will and can do what they want, and if that includes putting a laughing emoji on a comment because they feel op is being sensitive then that’s their opinion. The conversation will be either yes they agree or no they don’t. Neither is right. These are two different perspectives so I don’t know what else you really expect?

in their head they think they look like they're in their early 30s.

How can you be so sure about what someone thinks in their head?

About you seeing a woman in 40s with a 4 year old and thinking she is a grandmother and justifying this with some GOV published average age, the other people can have their own conscious bias and can justify based on some other statistics.

Most women you know around 49 are grandmothers, and for some people most younger mothers they see are less ambitious, and that’s how they form their opinion.
We all make assumptions and conclusions based on what we notice in our mini world.
If you are not willing to be polite and willing to hear other person’s perspective, don’t call them rude when they give their opinion with the same confidence and bias you do without regard for feelings for other side. A lot of posters are being nasty on both sides. The context op gave shows that colleague was just being thoughtless, nothing more when she didn’t even ask anything about OP’s children. Who jump to grandkids without asking about kids unless there is some relevance. A lot of posters responded to op rudely telling her to get over herself, etc.

@LikeWhoUsesTypewritersAnyway you’re being very rigid here. I am saying it’s nasty that people say that is exactly what my experience would be. And that it is correct. But equally I’ve never once been guessed to have my current age and anyone I know who has children in primary school is in their 40s. So I know it won’t be. I’ve also worked in primary schools for years like I’ve already said and I know most of the parents are older than me by quite a bit. To be honest it just suggest that perhaps you are quite young yourself.

The younger parents in my experience and where I live and where I am from are the anomaly. It’s very expensive to survive and they simply can’t afford to have kids until later in life. So it’s not just the case that that is exactly what my experience is going to be. It isn’t. I would never assume anyone was a grandparent at school pick up. And even when I was working in schools in my early 20s, I would always have asked parent? Upon collection of the kids and allow the grandparent to correct me because that’s the polite thing to do. And sure you give them a nice little confidence boost. But I’ve never ever wrongly thought someone was a grandparent when they were a parent. Not once in my 37 years of existing. I can even remember a boy in my primary school having older parents and us all just recognising then as parents even when we were of primary school age ourselves. But perhaps that’s just having lived in different places and experienced all sorts - I am very well aware the whole worlds experience isn’t exactly like mine.

The same logic applies @Catinthereallysmallhat, many people in their 50s also look way younger these days too. My hairdresser is nearly the same age as OP and I thought he was in his late 20s or early 30s the whole time I have known him. I have always thought I was older than him. My sister is in her 40s and still can’t get into a bar or buy alcohol or cigarettes without ID. People do not believe her when she says her age and she has been accused of using a fake ID regularly. And she has been a smoker since she was 15! So it’s really not so crazy as you think.

This is the point that I am out. If your response to someone saying they felt offended is to show a crying laugh emoji just shows that half the people on here are not really capable of having a conversation and are just focused on being right or showing others up as being wildly wrong instead of just admitting that there are other perspectives out there and that it is possible to feel something that you perhaps wouldn’t. The conversation isn’t at all constructive at this point.

@OP I would feel offended and I probably would’ve said so at the time, or gently indicated that it might be a rude thing to ask. It’s like people asking me if I have kids and if not then why - when you don’t know anyone that has fertility issues then you perhaps don’t think to be gentle when engaging in that conversation. I think that perhaps sets me apart from the ‘average’ person based on this thread, as I am a hypersensitive person and so will always be sensitive to others needs in a conversation and if I have unknowingly offended someone I would explain if they have misunderstood me or own up and apologise if it was a lack of awareness on my part and try to do better next time. Everyone is fighting a battle we don’t know about and all that. It’s nice to be kind and considerate and to handle things with grace instead of biting or snapping. But I think the ‘average’ person based on all the averages chat on here seems to just say things with no consideration to how they might land and then scoff if it has hurt the other person and tell them they are the wrong ones for having feelings. I do also genuinely think some people just get a kick out of being quite verbally aggressive on these chats or purposefully take very strong standpoints and disagree with people to pass their time. And if that’s your hobby, then so be it! Rather you than me.

You’re talking perfect sense. Also primary school teachers can be as young as 21 years old. My husband was that age when became a teacher. When I was 21 I thought 30 was OLD never mind a 49 year old. So yes, younger teachers will probably think someone in their late 40s is the grandparent.

I have seen this as well. I think it's a combination of the employment prospects not really covering the cost of university that well, compared to other types of work, and also the fact that university education has really lowered it's standards to a significant degree, so it's not even honing the soft skills it used to. When you can come out of a degree from a supposedly good university and barely write a research paper, that doesn't seem very worthwhile.

My kids see people a little older than they are coming out of trades and buying homes in their 20s, and being able to do things, and that's seems a lot more appealing than spending 4 or probably more years in a mediocre school, not earning, and coming out at 25 and still looking for work that may be difficult to find or needing additional qualifications. That five years spent investing income or buying a house is a huge advantage 30 years down the road.

But why is it nasty to view you as a grandmother? Surely that would be their perception of you based on how you look not your age? Not all older mothers are going to look old, and not all younger mothers will look young.

Nope. You're wrong. I said earlier, as a generalisation, NOT aimed you personally...

Taken from my post at 17.59

The reason people are offended, is because even though they are old enough to be a grandmother (and are the average age of a grandmother - according to Government statistics, around 49-50,) in their head they think they look like they're in their early 30s.

Everyone else is seeing someone who looks their age though. (As everyone does - within 3-4 years.) So even though someone of around say 49-51 thinks they look 33, everyone else is seeing someone who is around 50. No-one thinks you look 33.

I said someone who is 49-50 is not going to look 33, they will look their age, so that is why people can easily think you could have grandchildren. I merely said that some people were under the impression that they look 15 years younger than they are. (You see it a LOT on Mumsnet.) So they are automatically offended if someone thinks they look older (than they think they do!)

I did not aim anything at you. It was a generalisation based on what you were saying. I was not 'nasty.' I stated facts. That everyone pretty much looks their age, and that some people think they look much younger than they do. And that's why they are offended when someone says something that implies they think they're older than they think they look (or GASP! thinks they are their actual age.)

Upshot is, it's NOT that weird or offensive for someone to assume someone who is 49-50 could be a grandmother. 74% of almost 900 people think YABU, and many comments on here suggest it too. Maybe you should just accept YABU.

And @Iggilypiggily you may think people are being 'nasty' to assume a woman of 50 picking up a 5-7 y.o. is the grandmother, but most people will. That's just the way it is. Despite lots of posters on Mumsnet saying they and everyone they know had their first child at 42, and had another 1 or 2 in their 40s, most women will have their first by 30, and the last one before they are 37-38.

I'm all talked out on this thread now, and am just repeating myself at this point. So I'm out.

I thought that reading the title, but I kinda get it. Not in the way that you shouldn't ask about pregnancy because people may be child free (by choice or not). But in the way that "are you pregnant" can equate to "you're rather fat aren't you", asking about grandchildren is making an assumption as far as age goes.

Neither I think are usually intentional, but tactless.