Teacher pay

I'm also going to leave this thread now because it's a distraction from the actual topic of pay rises, and I can take my gripes elsewhere.

It's also got rather more personal then I intended, and I don't have the emotional energy right now too unpick whose fault it was that one child of mines education suffered whilst my other one was fighting for her life. I suspect it was a group effort, but the important thing is to now or it right.

So signing off on here.

Oh, and we do pay for a private tutor to help her catch up where school failed her. We also do work with her every night to try to get her back on track.

We aren't passive any more. We just haven't decided whether to ditch the school or persevere yet.

One of the major issues with going up the pay scale is that it is entirely dependent on the Management of the school.
They can manufacture any BS reason to prevent you from going up and if you complain, will often take it personally and prevent you from progressing later on as well.

I don't think people realise that experienced teachers aren't being offered the same incentives as new recruits. I apparently never qualified to go up the payscale due to failing to meet some target that couldn't be measured objectively. I was earning far less than NQTs and ECTs.

People also don't understand contact and non-contact time. I might only have twenty hours I'm officially teaching in a week but to mark an essay properly can take half an hour per essay. A GCSE paper takes about an hour for an experienced teacher. And you have twenty five students in one class but you might have two GCSE classes. I used to find that if I worked out my hours, I only realistically got 25 days off a year at most.

If you want me to be honest as to why I was passive, I did nothing because we lived in a hospital during that time with a child who we weren't sure was going to live or die. We were living in a nightmare.

It's taken us a few years to claw our way back to 'normality' and perhaps that means we've let one of our children down, but that doesn't absolve those whose job it literally is too teach her.

Now we are (hopefully) mostly out the other side, I'm trying to work out how to put her education right.

I feel that in your eyes teachers can do no wrong. There are many good teachers out there, but many aren't. It shouldn't be up to parents to rectify that.

Yes of course if it isn't secure which it clearly wasn't but you said your child was doing the lessons and losing it because the lessons weren't teaching it. Clearly if they lost 2 years worth of learning then that child is not secure in what she said they excelled at and they didn't get onto the deeper learning things.

She could only do sums - I thought you said she could excel? If she cannot do subtraction or multiplication or division but only sums then that is not exceeding.

What you wanted was the next year groups' learning which is not going to happen in any school as that is not what happens in maths. You do not take them to the next level with learning. They get taught the same thing but at a deeper understanding. All have the same opportunity to achieve this in lessons.

Maybe why did you not do anything but sit there and let it happen? That is the sad part that you did nothing. But then again you blame me for not caring yet it wasn't me sitting there not doing anything while my child lost 2 years worth of learning! That is more sad that you did nothing to help when you could. Saying I am sad for not being concerned about your child all the while you have not acted to support her learning is more sad.

You are ok to disagree that planning is overblown and as someone who has no idea then you can disagree but are wrong. In my school this year changes to guided reading has been introduced which has taken 4 hours to plan for one week. Changes in English has meant planning took 12 hours to plan for one week. So that is two subjects - teaching the same thing - same topics, same texts etc but changes within the lessons and how they are taught and delivered and changes to planning mean more time. But you know this right? You do know subjects have leaders who want things changing and developing year on year meaning changes in all subjects each year. Some minor, some major but always changes and development meaning you change and develop with them.

Move them but for the love of God find an interest in helping your child instead of being passive.

Of course it's possible to lose knowledge - what a silly comment! I don't remember everything from my degree for example. She absolutely lost knowledge because she wasn't practicing what she'd learned. We gain and lose knowledge every day.

The fact that you are more concerned with respect for teachers than a little girl who loved numbers, loved maths, could do (simple) sums in her head, and that spark of joy and interest got snuffed out because they couldn't meet her where she was academically, is sad.

There was another girl in her class who LOST the ability to read in reception.

I have no issue with respect for teachers, and her school teachers clearly work hard in terms of delivering a curriculum, marking and behavioural management. I'm just saying IMO the planning aspect is overblown. That's fine that you disagree.

I am considering moving them tbh, it's a toss up between them staying in a school that's clearly got problems (almost a total lack of Sen support, declining academic standards, undersubscribed for the first time in a decade), and staying where they are happy.

But this is all for another thread really. I support inflation level pay rises for everyone, otherwise it's a pay cut. I'd like to get one myself!

I completely support the belief that teacher pay rises should be centrally funded by the government and not pull from the already underfunded school budgets directly. If not, it's only the children that will suffer, and school is hardly a great environment for most of them as it is.

I do wonder, is there a disparity in pay and conditions between primary and secondary teachers? There has been a lot of talk about secondary teachers doing marking (classwork, homework, exams) in their own time. Due to the age of children, these pieces of work must be much more extended and complex than the primary marking. They will also cover multiple year groups, whereas a primary teacher will usually be marking one year group, much shorter pieces of work etc. Do secondary teachers feel this disparity and think they should be paid more?

Most of my extended family are primary school teachers. They talk about some marking in their non-working hours but it is absolutely nothing like the hours mentioned here. Not even vaguely. I know that's anecdotal, but it's multiple teachers based over 4 different primary schools so not something I can dismiss in my own mind.

Although changed, pensions are still generous and not very well appreciated or understood. Would it be better to reduce pension and put this money upfront and fund better salary increases this way?

Finally, do teachers sometimes feel that colleagues could be supporting each other more? Like a previous poster, I've had multiple children go through the same primary school. They teach the same thing to each one as they go through the year group. I understand that there will be some changes and tweaks based on the composition of the class abilities for that particular year group, and that teachers often change to teaching a new year group each September. But surely you shouldn't be re-writing the class plans again from scratch?! Shouldn't the teacher who taught the year group previously be handing over their plans from the year before so that they can be adapted?? Perhaps teachers aren't supporting one another enough if this really is the case.

You can't predict that the resources they use are the same. What you mean is the worksheet they complete is the same. Typically because they may use a scheme like White Rose Maths but the resources will change as they reflect on if they could improve it or use different resources and also reflect on what worked and what didn't.

Differentiation is in the past. That is not used any longer. I'm sure you know why? Adaptive teaching is used now. Something you say is not yet you do not know what it is. Your child cannot lose maths knowledge unless it was not secure. The work is set to get more difficult as the lesson progresses but you know that right? Clearly your child wasn't secure and maybe could get an answer but couldn't understand what the concept was if they do not understand it now.

Sounds like you have an issue with the school. Maybe remove the children and either homeschool or find another school. Sounds like you have no respect for teachers.

Absolutely this.

This says it really well. Currently awake but no point trying to sleep as I'll be up in half an hour as I'll be at school by 7.00. I expect to be there until 6 pm and probably to do another hour or so on the laptop once I get home.
For those who think that teaching is easy money do come and join us, there are plenty of jobs due to the recruitment and retention difficulties.

Obviously I can't predict the precise words they use, but the resources are the same. I can predict which presentations they use, the contents of their workbooks etc are identical. When I know my youngest is going to miss a day (ie medical appointments), I confirm with the teacher what they are doing the following day and 90% of the time I'm right. It's so predictable that when my kid vomited (but was fine in herself) I picked her up, and we continued the next slide from the presentation they were going through 😂. I mean, it makes it easy for me, and there's no point in reinventing the wheel, but I'm not going to pretend that there's extensive planning used here. It's just recycled.

It's crystal clear from 4 years in the school that there is zero differentiation. My child actually lost maths knowledge in the first 2 years (which destroyed the early interest she had in the subject), because the work was so easy. She literally went backwards. But in areas where she struggles, they plough on leaving her behind.

Secondary teachers definitely do. Certainly if they teach English.

FE is the Cinderella sector. Massively underfunded with no parity re pay or standing. Yes, the pay is awful but also, as a random example, London parking allowances are made for teachers at schools of primary, secondary and 6th form but not those who teach in FE.
Alongside teaching mainstream vocational studies, so desperately needed in a society crying out for a skilled workforce, FE teaches young people and adults who have often been through harrowing circumstances in their previous schooling years and for whom this second chance at education is pivotal. The pastoral burden and time given to supporting learners emotionally and practically in this sector is immense and often overwhelming. FE teachers deal with trauma, homelessness and desperation on a daily basis.
FE teachers don’t have the appreciation of parents or the prestige of HE; as neither fish nor fowl they have been excluded from any sector pay rise for a over a decade yet cope with a massive need. About time they were included in the conversation.

172 maths papers (assuming a calc and non-calc) only equals 86 children.

86 children is only 3 classes. 3 small classes at that!

Why on earth does your school have all the exams and all the reports at the same time?? That is absolutely bonkers. I have been teaching 20+ years and never seen it done like that.

They are given books without words helps develop comprehension. They are used throughout school no matter what reading age. So your kids do the same work but not the same lesson. They have to achieve the same objectives but are not taught the same lesson. Can you predict how they are being taught?

I arrive at 7.30 and tend to leave at 6 most days. So I don't take much home. Except at exam time. Or report time.

Yes I do this too. I would say 2 hours every night but during exam time when there is marking it can be more than 2 hours.

i work in a private school (in Australia) though pay issues are same here. My pay in the private school is must less but higher workload and expectations especially for the senior kids. But also less behavioural issues.

our state schools have similar problems with attracting and retaining staff. Pay if just 1 part of it. Unfortunately to fill the gap our government is allowing students to start teaching while they are still studying - so not even fully qualified. I know of one who is leaving the profession before he’s even finished the degree, as putting in unqualified unprepared people just leads to faster burn out.

I tend to find that teachers who say that they don't take work home get into school at 7am and do loads then, and leave late, where I get in later due to child drop-offs, leave earlier for child pick-ups, then crack open my laptop at 9pm once everyone's in bed.

Hurray for the Barnett formula eh?!

Wow, we are paid £26-34ish k at our place!

Fucking PE teachers who end up as SLT and have never taught a full core subject timetable.

To be fair, I used to do that (very long days in school). I worked in a boarding school, so it was pretty normal to be in your classroom past 9pm. So I guess 'technically' I wasnt taking work home... but was routinely working 12+ hour days. I've got kids now so that's impossible - now I get my work done when they've gone to bed. It's pretty rubbish, but I do love teaching and I love my subject, so I'll keep at it. When I can afford to, I'll go part time (but probably work full time hours) to manage the workload. I'd love to do a 0.6 timetable over 5 days and wouldn't mind being in school full time if the job was manageable! I think I'd enjoy it much more.