To think someone's sexual predilections reflects on their broader character?

Actually they really really don't

It really is worrying sometimes how much MN's ideas about women are actually quite harmful to women

Actually some of them really really do.

I wish you could see that you actually just don’t have a very high opinion of women.

Yep, I agree OP. If someone enjoys exerting power over others in the bedroom, they are generally like this in other areas of life, or at least they mask their true selves in public and it comes out behind closed doors where they feel safe. It makes complete sense, all our behaviour is interlinked.

Yes, in Mumsnet world only men can possibly be imagined to have any sexual interests beyond silent, lights-out missionary. That’s Mumsnet Feminism, which is weirdly close to misogyny.

And yet the idea you are a bad person because you watch horror movies is still a common suggestion

Plenty of people cause actual harm to others for money. As I said

And women hurt men in sex too

So what you’re essentially saying is that you believe that unless sex is ‘an expression of love’ it’s disgusting and wrong? And that the only form of sex you believe to be ‘an expression of love’ is someone putting their penis into a woman’s vagina?

Why is having someone’s penis in my vagina an expression of love, but not having someone’s tongue in my vagina? What about gay people? Are two lesbians going down on each other not expressing love? What about two men having anal sex? If someone loves being handcuffed to the bed with a butt-plug in their bum and that brings them immense sexual pleasure, why is their partner not expressing love by providing them with that pleasure?

And also, why does it matter whether it’s about love or not? Why can’t it be about mutual pleasure?

This thread is honestly astonishing. And it’s also full of god-awful sexism and internalised misogyny. People are on here telling women they’re disgusting because their sexual interest goes beyond sweet romantic missionary sex and suggesting that it’s only men who truly want to do anything different. These attitudes are Victorian and so far from anything I recognise as feminism. It’s regressive and depressing.

To all the people on here saying that things other people do are disgusting and harmful - I guarantee you that you will definitely have at least one set of close and much-loved friends, siblings, parents or adult kids who are into the things you think are the sign of a warped and dysfunctional psyche and I guarantee you that a lot of your partners are secretly fantasising about things that would give you a heart attack.

I’ve been a victim of domestic violence at the hands of a terrible, abusive misogynist who was very, very vanilla in the bedroom. Frankly, he’d have been the ideal lover for some of the women on this thread because he shared a lot of your notions of what’s ‘normal’ and ‘healthy’ and ‘loving’ in the bedroom. He was disgusted when I even said certain words in a sexual context; if I’d asked him to spank me or pull my hair or something he’d have shamed me for it just like the women on this thread are shaming people. But he was a violent, controlling abuser who essentially hated women.

I’ve also had relationships with absolutely lovely, kind, sweet and sensitive men who were brilliant feminist allies who were up for anything in bed and totally open-minded and uninhibited and non-judgemental. My DP of 22 years is one of them.

BDSM can and does include non sexual elements which can then be very caring and helpful to the submissive - a dominant essentially forcing them into self care but in the realm of their lifestyle

It says so much that most people against kink are only talking about men hurting women, not the fact many men like getting hurt by women. It doesn't fit their narrative. Just like OP clearly just believes the only acceptable sex is missionary with a life long partner...

Which is then all the issue with making kinks something shameful. Women can't talk about them, can't be open without worrying about shame and shunning. Which means they hide things. Which leaves them vulnerable

Any kinks being acted out should be - safe, sane, consensual. Continued consent is key

If you don't have consent then it's rape. Simple as that. Whatever type of sex it is.

And BTW, there are people who consensually hit each other outside of sex 😒

That doesn't mean it's a kink though

Ahh classic MN

"Disagree? Must be a man"

Tiresome

Like a pp has said above , she enjoys a little pain & she has a lovely caring husband ! !

I don’t think those things are disgusting. They seem pretty harmless to me.

Absolutely!

Of course it does. All the recent normalisation of weird shit is, well, weird.

Oral sex isn’t an “expression of love”…?

Err, you what now?

I'm sorry I don't agree. I enjoy a little pain during sex (tugs on nipple clamps, spanking, a bit of wrestling/ pinning). I especially like it when I have PMT and I'm all wound up, its quite a release for me. My husband enjoys it because he can visibly see he is giving me pleasure. I suppose it does reflect him in day to day life because he is very thoughtful and giving generally as a partner, but it doesn't reflect a desire to hurt anyone for fun. I liken it to going on a big rollercoaster because being a little bit scared in a safe way is fun and exhilarating, and a little bit of pain during sex can be the same thing when its safe and by choice.

I think it can do, but not always.

Depends on too many factors to generalise I think.

Right so anything beyond PIV as an expression of love. Presumably sex for the sake of sex is not quite right either?

Anyway, it makes it a lot clearer where you’re coming from.

This is where it gets complicated. One person’s normal sex life if another person's kink, so where do you draw the line? A threesome between consensual adults might be anathema to many people but it’s really quite a “normal” act that I’m sure so many people engage in. If anal sex is enjoyable for men, can it not then be enjoyable for some women, or does it always have to be an act that is either derogatory to your female partner or some kind of hidden desire to want to have sex with a man instead of your female partner?

There are many, many sexual acts which are not missionary-with-the-lights-off or “making love” which a large percentage of consenting adults will take part in - anal, spanking, light sub-dom, dressing up. Are these all kinks? If they are to one person, does that mean the large number of people who engage in that activity are somehow “wrong” and not normal?

I do get some of what you’re saying but it’s so highly subjective I don’t agree it stands as it’s own statement.

Out of curiosity where’s your line OP? What about swinging, threesomes, oral sex, anal?

Armchair psychoanalysts galore.
Get a life.

It's when men in dresses are lauded and told they're a vulnerable oppressed minority, then in private discuss their euphoria boners from wearing women's knickers and all the civil boundaries they've transgressed.

IA with a previous poster that kinks are being forcefully normalised. Unfortunately instead of being shocking, they are very boring and predictable. Another poster seemed surprised to have acquired a kink from a family film, as if family films are somehow immune to adult interference and perverted Hollywood writers.

Women in the BDSM community (like certain other communities) sadly believe they are more sophisticated than those trying to warn them of the acts of self-harm they're committing.

Men in the BDSM community are sociopaths.

Anyone who likes to hurt or humiliate someone during sex is vile.
on what grounds could you possibly believe this isn’t part of the ‘real’ them?
they’re someone who enjoys hurting others.
aka a sadist.