Loud Child in Church

My church has a play area at the back with a doll's house, mini play shop, building blocks and other bits and pieces at the back. The vicar has young kids of his own that play there with all the other kids in the congregation. Kids can play there while still in view of parents in the pews. I would suggest putting some notices up asking for contributions of old toys or scouring charity shops and making a little play area that Abby and other young kids can use. It could probably be set up by next week.

But those with sensoryl needs and disabilities might be loud themselves
I'm not a regular church goer although brought up RC ,my son is severely autistic non verbal and extremely loud at times
If I was ti take him to church i would hope they would be accepting of him
I dintvthink you can say one group of people are allowed to be loud but another can't be ,it's either inclusive and child friendly or it isn't

Jane needs to go out with the kids and then come back and sit at the back away from Ben.

Ben might be having a hard time but women aren't his emotional support animals.

He should bring his own snacks and distractions.

There was a child in church last week squeaking like a guinea pig. It was awful! But you can’t say anything as we have to welcome all. Although it doesn’t feel very inclusive to those of us who find it painful or distressing to hear. I’d wear ear plugs but I play the organ!

Yeh a PP has already mentioned this, but having a couple of bags of toys/colouring in which a member of the church can hand out to the kids who aren't able to go with the other kids. I don't agree with the dad just allowing the kid to do whatever, or other adults having to take over, so this could be a middle ground.
I take toys and snacks, the amount of times another little kid appears and they play together. But it amazes me why other parents don't bring anything to these types of things. It benefits the child and the rest of the community.

Exactly. He's idle and they're enabling it.

The kind thing to do would be to find a way that Ben feels supported because he’s clearly doing a difficult job, but so that no one else feels continually put upon.

I wouldn’t normally think it was nice for a two year old with no mum be made to leave church, but if there’s sensory needs for someone else to consider then maybe some people could take it in turns to entertain the child. If Ben knows there’s a rota or something he’s more likely to remove his daughter when she is truly disruptive if she won’t go outside with anyone else.

If that's the case he needs to take responsibility for his child during the service. The women like Jane need to stop doing his parenting for him.

Or just people who wish ti have a bit of peace to pray and reflect. I go ti church just for that! I don’t expect total silence of course, but to hear someone hollering and making a racket is just plain disrespectful.
We have children in church and Sunday School is only once a month. They are kept under control or taken out. They know what’s expected of them a d how to behave. They are a joy to have with us.

It’s hard for me to from an opinion on whether or not Dad is being unreasonable based on not taking child out. Simply because levels of noise are subjective and you haven’t really said if it is constant and what type of noises etc.

I do think it’s a hard thing to balance in churches when it comes to making it child friendly whilst also attempting some peace and quiet. I am a Church goer and have a just turned 3 year old, most weeks he goes to the kids club but there is one week a month where kids clubs don’t run and all children are welcomed in the church. In those weeks, I don’t really care how noisy he is, I mean if he was screaming then yeah I’d take him out but normal play sounds I think is fine.

Personally I wouldn’t say anything. It’s up to her parents to encourage her more to go the club or wait until she’s ready. She’s only 2 at the end of the day, I’m sure in a couple years she will be different.

If Abby is so attached to Ben and only wants to be with him, how come she’s happy to be left with all these other people/women?

We have a couple of very boisterous young children in the congregation and a few disabled/ SEN children and adults who sometimes make noise or have moments of disruption. It's part of the reason I love going to the church and no one minds.

However, I know what you mean in that while everyone is fine with little outbursts and secretly likes it when a toddler shouts something random in the middle of a sermon, we still do expect the carers to manage the situation to minimise disruption where possible. If people don't settle then maybe nip out into one of the other rooms.

The issue isnt with the toddler but with the parent not managing it and pushing it on others. Who then can't enjoy the sermon. It did stand out to me that Ben had missed 6 weeks because he was trying to settle her, that doesn't sound like someone who is totally avoiding responsibility. If this is someone who is trying then maybe there is more that can be done to support?

So Ben has 4 kids, youngest is 2, clingy and loud, and is a single parent.

Chat to Jane/the vicar about how to support him. The church could easily provide a couple of toy bags with age appropriate activities in. You could look in charity shops to help build up the stock of toys. And someone could give Ben/Jane some biscuits to keep little one settled.

Remind the vicar how lucky s/he is to have families attending church - ours has worked really hard to get them back in - and see how you can all support them.

Dad (or mum if she's on the scene) needs to go to Sunday School with Abby until she gets used to it.
You and Jane need to tactfully tell him this - at the least Jane needs to return Abby to him when she comes over (though why is she coming to others if she wants to be with dad so much?).

Church services are about people in all shapes and sizes. Either it is a welcoming church or it isn't. If this is described as a child-friendly service then people have to suck it up! Some children will not want to be farmed ou0t during it, some children will be more boisterous than others.

It could be that church is simply an inappropriate place for this child to be and she should be out in the park having some fun.

I don't think you can say anything if it is a child friendly service. However, it can be difficult to concentrate if a child is too loud. I'd probably take along rice cakes, bread sticks and sultanas and ask Dad if you can feed them to her during the bits of the service when you want to concentrate.

Why does this man expect women to take over looking after his DD?
And why do they do it?

Why should Jane have to move because of one child? A child friendly service is generally a tolerant one, but there is a difference between what you’d expect: low level chatter, dropping things and the odd whine and then there’s loud disruptive behaviour which really isn’t on.

Could someone from Sunday school try and encourage dad to bring Abby out with all the other children and for dad to stay at Sunday school for a few weeks to settle Abby.

I don’t think you should say about her loudness but dad needs to step up here. Anytime Abby plays up firmly say go to dad now, Abby. If he doesn’t respond tap him and ask he takes over.