Loud Child in Church

No, this thread is about intolerant people. Adults.

This if its a family service there is no issue or shouldn't be

So a widower?

Op I would be actively trying to help this man as much as possible. 4 young kids, alone and I’m going to take a punt that his wife died

Did you hear re your flexible working request Op?!

We have a box with drawstring bags containing quiet toys. Small wire bead frames are also good - no pieces to lose - and board books. We also have a small play area and colouring books and crayons and wordsearch for older children

If I were Jane I would be sitting away from Ben..

Aged 2 her noise is expected. Children should be allowed to be children, church is for everyone, so you are unreasonable to complain about children's noise.
Ben sounds awful and needs being told to stop being a waste of space. Or may be just say he needs to parent his child and not expect women to do it for him.

No one can expect a 2 year old to sit quietly through a church service. It's not as if she will understand what's going on either. Ben should bring toys to amuse her, snacks and if she's too disruptive take her outside. She's bored, has a short attention span and needs supervising. Parenting his daughter is not other church member's responsibility but his. Being a single parent to 4 young children is tough, regardless of gender, and I absolutely understand he wants/needs a break. However, he can't ignore his parenting duties, and expect others to do it for him. He missed church for 6 weeks, and tried to settle his youngest in Sunday school. 6 weeks is nothing for a child who experiences separation anxiety. He needs to persevere with this, even if it takes 12 weeks or more. At some point his daughter will need to start nursery/pre-school, and he will have to leave her, no matter how upset she may be. No, it's not a nice feeling, as a parent, knowing your child is upset, but it's something she will have to get used too.

We don't have any children that young at our church but I have been there with my dc. My dc1 was the loudest and now he plays the organ so he is allowed to make a noise!

We started off with board books and quiet baby toys, then cars on a mat and colouring. These days the children either read, draw or play on tablets/phones.

Bizarre? It really isn't strange at all. Many people discreetly have a boiled sweet or a Polo. I've heard some people even eat wafers in church!

And instead of complaining about it I would offer to help and take the child outside stating gently but firmly that it’s so the sermon is not disrupted

i would gently suggest he takes the child outside whilst I keep an eye on the other DC

The norm is to take a loud child or crying baby outside of a church so they don’t disrupt the sermon

But now so many parents go to church just so they get their DC into a local faith school they have no idea that this is what you are meant to do

The man is probably struggling to keep his own head above water.

Wife not on the scene does that mean she walked out or died?

4 kids, the youngest only 2 that means it's probably very new and still very raw.

I agree, and frankly what use is a church service to a 2 year old? What possible benefit can it be for her to be in the service rather than the Sunday School, and even that unless it offers creche-like care? It seems Ben wants to come to hear the sermon, but doesn't expect Jane to want to hear it too!
If the church wants to run a creche, fine, but 2 is too young even for Sunday School imo. Does the vicar not have any view on all of this?

Totally agree with 'suffer little children' but this thread is about a lazy man and a two women who feel they can't say anything about it.

I wouldn’t pass judgment about him using people for free childcare as it’s likely to make him defensive but I would ask if he could take her outside because she’s distracting the sermon for everyone else - or just ask the pastor to do it, I assume it is their place to speak to members of the congregation who are causing issues during sermons?

Op stay out of it.
Ben may be really struggling to cope with the loss of his partner and having 4 children to raise.

If Jane is happy to help leave it.

I can't imagine trying to cope with your own grief and that of 4 children including a tot who probably hasn't grasped any of it.

That hour in the church might well be his hour to reflect and think about his own grief.

I have been a church goer all my life and worked in churches.

The vicar and church warden should pick up these things pretty easy and handle them.

Unfortunately some parents with loud children aren't easy to help or settle.

Which is why concerns need to be raised with the vicar or wardens

So that solutions can be found

It might be a separate "quiet" service is required for those who want service without excess noise.

It might be creating a children's space within the church so families aren't excluded but which "cushions" the sound

It might be setting up a "quiet space"

It might be streaming the service to a separate hall for the children until they rejoin at a point in the service

But if the people in charge of arranging these aren't told then they can't help...

Is there a way the sermon can be streamed to the room where the kids are so parents can sit with kids AND hear the service?

Suffer little children to come unto me.

Not me. Him. You know.

Trouble is if rough mean other families leave.
I have always taken my family to church and it's fine with a loud Sunday once in a while but if all Sundays are a nightmare of noise I wouldn't bother go.

I think this is on Jane to sort out TBH, if she doesn’t like it she needs to send the child back to dad nicely rather than step in. With 3 kids the sooner Jane finds her big girl pants the better!

If it's child friendly to the point that people don't mind disruption, I'm very surprised there aren't any toys.
Our DS has SEN and has always found sitting still and being quiet next to impossible. The first church we went to had toys etc. and we did our utmost to keep the DCs quiet but the toys were in an echoing side chapel.
We went to the "family" 10.30 service. There were also 8 am and 6.30 pm contemplative services. We were asked to "sit in the cafe area during services" where you can't see or hear the services so our DCs noise wouldn't disturb others. No suggestion that people could choose a different style of service if they don't like children's noise.

Luckily we eventually found a much more friendly church which has only about 30 at services but they all know DS, he now rings the bell during communion regularly, has been confirmed, and happily puts up his hand when the vicar asks the children questions.
I'd have killed for someone to take the DCs off my hands in early days but there were two of us so at least we could take turns.

I would say YABU if you expect Abby to be quiet but the church IBU if it doesn't provide any toys or ideally a carpeted area for DCs (easier for the crawlers and quieter too).

A church should be a community or a family and should help each other but that also means helping Jane (apologies if wrong name!) get time to participate in the service as well as Ben - they both clearly need a break. 2 is quite young to go to Sunday School on her own, she won't be as used to it as she is to nursery as it's only once a week.

We have a similar situation in my church where a single mother has five children, the youngest of whom has severe developmental delays and can be noisy. I am proud to say that she does not have to ask for help because it so freely offered. Other people love to have her son, and it is now so normal that he will happily go into Sunday school with one of them that he’s grown used to.

I really think this needs to be an opportunity to offer support to Ben, not to tell him to do a better job. Perhaps the godmother could simply take responsibility for Abby on herself, bringing the toys and snacks and enjoying that time with her goddaughter, especially during the sermon.

Or ..... go to a different service that is not branded as child friendly.