on the tube recently people were giving up seats for a mother and a grandfather who in turn let the children sit

Good point re backpacks, now you come to mention it. I’d give a kid my seat rather than see them whacked in the face by one.

On Tuesday in London I was on the circle line heading east, it was after work, rush hour so tube is packed. I was sitting, had my headphones on and my eyes are closed but suddenly feel someone really close to me. Opened my eyes to see a woman pushing a boy (about 8 years) down to sit but there weren’t any seats free so she pushing this kid to to squeeze in between me and the man next to me! I was too stunned to speak then the guy next me got up - he didn’t have a choice really unless he wanted a strange child on his lap.

Nope, don’t own a car. And live in London, so we’re on public transport every day.

It’s crowds and access to something to hold on to. In a half-empty carriage, there’s no issue. In rush hour, an adult should be able to reach a pole or strap, and will be visible to people pushing to get on or off. A five year old won’t be, and risks getting flattened.

On busy trains, I sit DS in the luggage rack (the vertical one near the doors, not the overhead one!). He loves it, and we aren’t taking up a seat.

Lots of things used to be considered good manners which are outdated.

See also men who get flustered about a woman holding a door open for them.

It’s all based on outdated norms about hierarchy and social worth.

There’s just no good reason that a child should give up their seat for an adult simply because they are adults. They have just as much right to a seat as anyone else.

Intrresting, this is somrthing I thought was always the case. What time scale are you thinking?

I’m a Londoner. My 15 year old is a Londoner. We’ve both stood on public transport throughout our lives. It’s not hard for either a 5 year old or a 10 year old (both ages mentioned on this thread).

Older people should always be allowed a seat over kids unless there’s a disability in play. Kids fall over all the time, or do parents who don’t like their kids standing never take them to a playground.

Not on a train but I remember the first time I slipped down the stairs at a station in my 40s (it’s happened a few times to me since) and it’s a really horrible sensation not just of the falling but “oh God, am I now starting to ‘have falls’?” I was really shaken up, physically and mentally. DD just picks herself up and dusts herself off, which is what I used to do.

And children being tired after a jolly day out is nothing to the bone-crushing tiredness after a day at work.

I don’t have a car. So your assumption is wrong. We go by bike a lot. It depends on the line and what type of public transport so I’ll make the judgment on what’s safer thanks.

DS8 has gone flying on the tube more than once - he’s too short to hold onto the overhead straps, and if he is in the aisle he usually ends up falling into somebody’s lap (even if he is holding onto a pole - the momentum spins him round it). He’s also exactly tall enough for everyone’s backpacks to hit him in the face when they turn around, and that has knocked him off his feet before (he is 130cm tall and weighs 25kg, so easily knocked over). Whereas I’m fine to stand.

I’d give DM (75) a seat over DS, but give DS a seat over myself. When DS was under 5, I’d have prioritised him.

I will stand and let my kid sit. If the train stops abruptly they can pitch forward. He can’t stand still so bumps into people. And it can be harder to move down the carriage as he can’t always reach the overhead bars. He’s getting older now so I’d get him to stand up and offer his seat but previously it was definitely safer for him to sit.

I agree. It’s how I was brought up and how I brought my son up. It was considered good manners.

I made this claim I have never driven so when I was taking my children out and about I was using public transport, and there is a big difference between a 5 year old and a 10 year old isn't there ?
Sounds like you don't have much experience of children on public transport.

My experience of people in London is they are amazing on the tube at giving up their seats.

They see my disabled ds coming and flee the priority seats - makes me grateful and giggle as he’s in a wheelchair 😂 He says thanks but you can sit as I’ve brought my own seat!

I wasn't really talking about taking seats from elderly people I was talking about young children in general are safer sitting.

It really isn’t hard for a 5 or 10 year old to stand on public transport. I can only assume those making this claim ferry their DC everywhere in a car.

It’s not safer for a child to sit than an elderly person who will get broken bones more easily, and that take longer to heal than a child will, or whom will bruise more easily etc.

I think it depends on how old the grandfather and the children were but it wouldn’t bother me.

What did bother me was when I was travelling with a heavily pregnant colleague and there was a mother and 3 children aged approx 7-15 who rushed to grab the only available seats in an airport waiting area. I did ask them to give up one of the seats for my colleague and they did so without complaint.

I think pregnant women and the very elderly should always be given priority. After that, as an able-bodied 40-something, I’d be happy to give priority to a child.

Kids have a lower centre of gravity. I am an able-bodied adult, but my balance is not equal to that of a ten year old. My back is more likely to feel it certainly than it did when I was younger even though I am fairly fit.

I do agree OP that this is a newer attitude.

I am London born and bred so I’ve been using the underground for almost 50 years. There is absolutely no way as a child I would have sat while there were adults standing up. It was considered rude. More than that, as children we used to think it was great fun to stand, we called it surfing the tube, being swayed around and keeping our balance. It probably did us good for our development! No one ever went flying. But we were also probably more fit and able as we didn’t spend our childhood sitting down in front of screens, we were generally more active.

In general, the people who need a seat should have one, and yes that will include some children and adults who appear able but are actually less so.

My frustration comes when a child is lifted out of a pushchair or pram and given a seat, or when an adult and child are sitting next to each other taking two seats when the child could sit on the adults lap and allow someone else to sit, or when a child is given a seat and they are messing around jumping all over the place so they obviously don’t want/need to sit.

It depends how old the children were. It's hard for small children to stand on the tube. I am a grandmother and would also much prefer for a young child to sit than me.

If you could put “in my day” in front of a statement, as in “in my day, adults never gave their seat up for children”, then usually it is just you becoming old and crotchety. It’s new to you but think back and you will remember old people making similar statements when you were younger.

FWIW I was on a crowded tube yesterday with my 10yo and I ushered him into a seat as soon as one became available as he is still very small and had nothing he could hold onto other than me. It seemed quite clear to me that his need for a seat was greater than any adult in that carriage, notwithstanding hidden disabilities.

15-20 years ago kids were still expected to stand for adults. I don't know when it changed but kids were definitely either out on laps or made to stand next to their parent for another adult.

I always found that DD was at the perfect height to get knocked over or a backpack to the face/back of the head until she was about 12, when people (men, largely) would just plow through her instead. In addition to that, I was never a fan of having to struggle through the backpacks to try and reach the doors before they closed again, so we stood unless there was a seat - and normally, I'd stand in front or slightly to the side of her, blocking the way to avoid somebody (yes, a man) swinging his way and his bag onto the train and into the seat, not noticing there was a girl there.

I would give my seat up for a child. As a regular commuter I see so many little kids fall over, far safer for them to be seated where possible. I'd personally be more offended about adults sitting while their children stood!

No, it's definitely a (relatively) new thing. I remember going to the US in the 90s and being really surprised that children were sitting while adults stood. My experience was that children lap sat until too big and then stood. I wouldn't have dreamt of allowing them their own seat while adults stood. Not commenting on safety or right or wrong here, just my experience of etiquette.