on the tube recently people were giving up seats for a mother and a grandfather who in turn let the children sit

True-and though anyone, of any age, can have a condition which makes it difficult or painful to stand for a long time, it is more likely to be the case for older people-and women in particular used to be offered seats; at one time it was quite likely they were pregnant/recovering from pregnancy, and more likely to have be damaged by childbirth (it is good that people are starting to discuss birth injuries, but I remember my great-gran talking about how her generation tended to "have" to have lots of children, and they were just expected to put up with long labours and they got no choice in how they delivered-maybe richer women did).
But really, there should be enough seats so no one has to stand. Yeah, like that's ever going to happen...

As an older person on the wrong side of 70, there’s certainly been a change during my lifetime. I don’t feel safe or comfortable standing on public transport. I’ve given up my seat so often both as a child (not a toddler, I’d be on an adults lap) and as an adult if there was someone who needed it more. It would be nice if it happened automatically now. And I never sat in the priority seats until I developed a mobility issue.

Generally I think courtesy is rarer these days. Lovely to read that some parents here still encouraging their older children to give up their seats. 👏🏼

Respectfully, an 84 year old is very different from a 70 year old - I would not call 70 "elderly". And if an 11 year old falls they are much less likely to be permanently damaged than an 84 year old.

Yeah and it was dumb, people aren't as dumb anymore. Adult bodies (unless particularly frail) are actually way more robust than growing bodies. Kids actually need to rest more, their muscoskeletal systems are underdeveloped and weaker overall. They should get the seat for health and safety reasons.

My 11yo has autism and dyspraxia and is VERY unstable on his feet. He has gone flying before on the tube when weve been standing, we now know we have to keep a tight grip on him as well as trying to hold on ourselves - sitting is much safer. Smaller children can also be unstable. Not every elderly person actually needs a seat (my almost 70yo MIL regularly goes on 10 mile hill hikes) - if she was travelling with my son she would definitely make sure he was sitting rather than her

Remember many adults will have reserved their seats to be beside their kids. It has to be the only explanation as to why in a 3 hour journey not a single seat became available.

I'm confused as to why the posters Mum didn't. Or why she didn't ask if their were seats elsewhere on the train.

Why are you blaming children? How about an adult gets up?

Good. So I hope you do this then? And always have? So say at age 20 you'd offer to someone of 25 etc?
And actually my kids have manners, thanks. They'd always offer to those people who NEED the seat (as long as it's obvious) so they'd offer to elderly, small children, people with a stick, pregnant women etc. But no. Not just anyone older than them. What absolute nonsense.

Perhaps we should scratch “respect your elders” and replace it with “consider the needs of others”.

I would have told my child to sit on my knee if I was sitting as well.

@ButterButterBattle
Sorry about your Mum. Did she not have a reserved seat?
Most long distance trains have a reservation system that let's you reserve a seat. Is that part of the reason she wasn't able to get a seat others had them reserved?
Although some trains also have a non-reserved carriage.

I do think she should have asked the Train Manager if they could have found her a seat in another carriage.

I'm another who thinks kids safety is far more important than some perceived lesson in manners.
I gave my seat on a bus to a young child last week. She was tired crying wanted up but her DMum was standing struggling to hold DD and the grab rails.

Someone said further up the thread that they’d make their child stand up for someone who needs the seat. Fair enough if it’s someone who genuinely needs it and not a ‘fit 41 year old’, but I’m interested if the parent remains seated in this scenario. Otherwise it’s a bit ‘do as I say, not as I do, no?’.

It’s got nothing to do with parents for the last 30 years. It’s incredibly unlikely that the train was full of people in their teens and 20s. The vast majority of people in their 40s or 50s would have been just as capable and could have offered the 81 year old their seat. Statistically around 95% if the train would have been younger.
It’s got nothing to do with parents or kids in the last 30 years.

I think it’s all about the age of the kids - if they are young (eg under 7) I would offer my seat to them (harder for them to stand safely) even when I was pregnant. But I wouldn’t do that for pre teens for example.

In the past kids would have had cheap bus tickets. It costs exactly the same for me or my child so she is as entitled to a seat as anyone else (actually she does have issues so does need to sit)

I have in the past (when also sanding myself) asked a younger person to give an older person their seat.

I agree OP...I think there is a change of attitude from even 20 years ago. My DC always gave up their seats for older people and when they were little I had them on my lap.
Older children of say 5-6 used to be wedged between the parent's legs.

So another adult has to pay for a seat and presumably take a day off work etc because parents have for 30 odd years brought up their children to be selfish fuckers.

Respect for elders. And yes, I understand respect is earned blah blah, but I’m not sure completely throwing out respect for elders has overall done our society a shedload of good. (Please don’t bother anyone coming along with endless scenarios of abusive adults etc.)

This isn’t about adults demanding that children get up for them. It’s about teaching children to pay attention to the world around them (something that needs to happen in these days of everyone being head down glued to their phone, AirPods in) and offering their seat where they can - the likelihood is that half if not most of the time thanks would be given for the offer but be politely declined. The kid who offered could feel good about themselves for getting the acknowledgement and thanks for the offer, and if it was accepted by someone who was grateful for the seat, they could feel good for helping someone out.

I love your Fil. ❤️

DFIL actually got into an argument with somebody about exactly this! He is in his 80s but looks good for his age, though he does use a walking stick.

He was sitting in the priority seat, when a middle-aged woman (this is relevant) sitting next to him tapped him on the shoulder and said “I think it’s disgusting that you haven’t offered your seat to my husband. He’s 72!”

FIL replied “I’m 81!”

She snapped “well he has a pacemaker!”

FIL opened his shirt collar to show off a fresh scar, and said “I’ve just had a heart bypass! You’re sitting down, why don’t you give him your seat?”

Because her husband was a gentleman who would never allow a lady to stand, apparently. FIL pointed out that was his choice to stand up then, and went back to his book.

That’s awful, your poor mum. If your mum doesn’t feel able to ask for a seat, I would suggest she be accompanied on train journeys in future.

Why is it good manners for a child to stand for an able bodied adult? How about the good manners for someone who is also perfectly able to stand to not expect a child give up their seat? Where are YOUR manners? Anything else you think a child should give you?

I've been mulling it over and am very confused by these "manners" rules. Are they allowed to sit down when they magically turn 18? What if they look younger, does that mean they have to stand until 25? Or is it just anyone younger than you? How do you know if someone is 40 or 42 to know if your 41 year old self should leap up or turf them off their chair?