on the tube recently people were giving up seats for a mother and a grandfather who in turn let the children sit

If there are lots of people standing it also means the people who are sitting can't really see beyond the people beside them.
If your mum has been near the door people wouldn't necessarily have seen her.

The train manager should have made some sort of effort to make sure her and the other elderly lady who needed assistance got the priority seats.

Might have been the same service my Mum was on!

"It's the 'not a child sitting 😱' brigade who piss me off, this idea that the comfort or wellbeing of children is inherently less important"

Yes. This exactly. There is no logical reason why a child is inherently less important than an adult here, except extreme selfishness and entitlement from those adults.

I HAVE an arthritic foot, well I have widespread small joint osteoarthritis, a chronic ankle and foot inflammation that has immobilised me completely in the past and currently have a knee injury as well, I use orthotics daily and crutches at times. I'm still more capable of standing on a bus than a child who can't hold on well or someone who is specifically frail. I stand for others to sit when they seem less capable than me and I've stayed seated at times when I literally couldn't stand for long periods despite someone else struggling to stand. If someone cared to ask me about it I'd happily apologise and explain. I'd be more inclined to suffer standing for a parent of a young child they were trying to keep safe than for someone who appears able bodied but a couple of decades older than me.

It's the 'not a child sitting 😱' brigade who piss me off, this idea that the comfort or wellbeing of children is inherently less important

Because she’s well over retirement age? As am I, and standing for any length of time on a moving vehicle gets harder. However, recently I’ve given up a seat for someone frailer than me (and I’m late 70s) whilst younger people studiously avoided noticing anyone's need. They can’t all have hidden disabilities can they?

@mrsjoyfulprizeforraffiawork
I still don't understand why you think you deserve the seat more than the child?
Because she has an arthritic foot. This qualifies as priority seating. Wait till you get an arthritic foot and then you will understand why she deserves a seat more than the child.

It would depend on the age of the child and it would also depend on the age of the grandparent. But in a general since I get it OP. If I was giving up my seat for someone I perceived to be a grandparent I wouldn't be expecting them to plonk a child down in their place. I think up to 6 years old I would put my own child/grandchild on my lap.

I still don't understand why you think you deserve the seat more than the child?

Do you think all parents get summer holidays off and those kids aren't being transported to summer clubs etc that are out of area? Naive

But why is it nice? If you're elderly (which from your post I assume you are?) then sure a child - or indeed a younger adult should stand for you, fair enough. But I just don't get the logic that ANY child should stand for ANY adult. Just why?

I would offer my seat to an exhausted-looking mother in the rush hour, as some look utterly worn out (whilst their children usually appear to be bouncing with energy - I very rarely see tired children on the tube and I am still commuting though well over retirement age). However, they usually then put their lively, not toddler, child in it (who continues to squirms about) and continue standing themselves (while looking as though they might pass out any minute). When I was small, I really wanted to be allowed to stand, as I liked holding the post and balancing on a moving train, so I was delighted if told to give my seat up when it got crowded. However, my parent(s) always then either made me sit on their lap or stand close and hold onto them. I do offer my seat to someone even older than me and/or less able to stand. I don't count children in this category unless they are disabled. I am a Londoner and in the 50s, 60s and 70s, children were expected to stand if an adult needed a seat. I don't recall any child I knew ever injuring themselves whilst doing so. In the last year I boarded a very crowded train on my way home and there were no seats available. 3 children who were about 6-10, I suppose, had a seat each. However, their kind, sensible father made them share two seats and give me one. That is quite rare these days and was much appreciated as I am not great at standing for too long (arthritic foot). When I worked in Sydney, schoolchildren were expected to stand if an adult needed a seat (the buses carried a notice about it), which was very nice.

@Needspaceforlego I’ve already said I get up for children under 6. Can’t children older than that stand up? And if it’s so obscenely dangerous for kids why take them in rush hour trains? (For fun days out, obviously leaving aside medical appointments and childcare, which I don’t believe takes up any significant proportion of the many kids between 6-11 travelling at rush hour in holidays, and seemingly their parents expecting seats for them).

It's about safety, how can adults not see that little kids struggle to brace themselves against the movement of a bus or train?

On another thread there was a woman who posted about her brother loosing his two front teeth because he fell on a moving bus after his mum had made them give up their seats.

Sometimes adults' needs do come first. And sometimes children's do. It's not an either/or scenario.

I always wonder about this. I work with toddlers and sometimes will have them on the priority seats on the bus. This is because it's in close proximity to the pushchair space. To me, this is non negotiable. 2 year olds absolutely cannot stand on a bus. Sometimes I wonder if the older folk that get on are annoyed they don't get 'their' seats. Just a caveat, I ALWAYS give up my own seat for anyone that needs it more.
Once I got an older toddler to stand up when there was a genuinely elderly woman got on the bus but I had to really hold on to her as young children really can't stand up on a bus.

I think that small children should sit but maybe share a seat if there are other people standing.
And definitely 8 years and older should stand for the over 70s. It’s basic good manners and consideration for those less fit than you.

We live in London so use the Tube loads (thankfully not often in rush hour)

It's usually 1 or 2 adults with 3 DC. Rule is, if it's not busy they can have a seat each but if it starts to get busy the smaller 2 sit with the adult/s or share together. So we can reduce from 5 to 3 seats or less. Always ask kids to stand up for someone who needs a seat (older / pregnant etc). And I'd also stand myself if there was a lack of seats.

If we get on and someone gives up a seat for me then I take youngest on my lap and older 2 stand. Kids are 12, 10 and 7.

Often we are only jumping on for a stop or two so we wouldn't bother with seats at all.

We make our seating decisions based on how busy tube is, how far we're travelling etc. Sometimes it's easier just to all find a corner and stand in together.

And people used to hit their kids and say they should be seen and not heard. Things change.

Tell you what, why don't you go first? Apply your own brain. You may find you're then able to understand the content of my post and will be able to avoid rudely and erroneously challenging me on something different. Go on, try it.

I’m not in London, so I can’t use my pass on the Tube if I visit. Londoners are fortunate, they still get their older person’s pass at 60, it’s retirement age for the rest of England.

Older people’s passes have restrictions in most of England, we can’t travel free before 9.30 on weekdays, I think that’s helpful in ensuring there’s space for paying passengers going to work. I wonder why 60 is still considered old in London but not elsewhere?

Yep I think that's why exactly what this poster was suggesting. Some people just see kids as a nuisance. Adults needs come first. Selfish weirdos.

@Sofiewoo not remotely what I said, but carry on making up your own little stories.

I think there’s a clash of expectations. When I was growing up I was expected to stand for adults. I grew up in London, my parents didn’t take me on at rush hour for a day out. Some of the younger generation seem to think that not only should children not get up, but adults should get up for children. I don’t expect children to give me their seat, but I’m certainly not getting up for a 7 year old. Despite all the hyperbole on this thread about them being future tax payers, future carers, their soft bones, their ‘tired little bodies’. Jesus, I’m sure they spend half their lives bombing around concrete playgrounds, but somehow become uniquely delicate on public transport.

I commute on the Piccadilly line, which is one of the main routes to Heathrow, & it’s fairly normal for tourists to take 2 or 3 seats up with their luggage - both bags on seats & the huge cases that block access to seats.

If the tube’s getting busy, I can perfectly happily stop by one of the luggage-filled seats & ask to sit down. I even see it as being helpful because then the more easily accessible seats are available for other people.

So we should probably ban pensioners from mooching about and getting on tubes with their free passes. Apparently the tube is only for working adults. The disabled can fuck off too then.
But wait, do you work in an office? You be been sat down all day so you don’t get to use public transport either.

🤦‍♀️

I've experienced similar on the trains from Manchester. Last time, I booked a seat, train was cancelled and replacement was far too small. Lots of people standing, then I saw a seat with a bag on it and had to ask it's owner, a young man, to move it so I could sit. He looked surprised.