To ground DD for a week

MA, why?

What is the definition of a typical brain then? What has science defined as a typical brain and if so why do teachers have to identify misconceptions that non- autistic children may develop during a lesson - I mean if all brains are the same then surely that wouldn't happen, right? They'd all process the learning in the same way if that was so?

The fact that kids will develop misconceptions and all learn at different rates and in different ways shows there is no typical brain.

Being ND isn't an excuse for violence she absolutely needs consequences for this behaviour as in a few years the police won't give two shits that someone Is ND

Teacher here! Children need boundaries and consequences and you are doing exactly the right thing. Without these boundaries behaviours will escalate.
There is much evidence of the impact of social media and games on behaviour. My niece was recently phone grounded and she made bracelets and became more pleasant as a result of not being on Roblox.
It may be hell to start with but by doing this you will reap the rewards in the long run.

I’m using NT to distinguish from ND.

Yes, you’re right they are. But I’m sure most people will have experienced having a shit week at work and then snapping at your partner when you shouldn’t. That’s a pretty normal experience I would say. We feel awful for it, but our defences are down when we are around people we are close to so we are more likely to snap at them than say, our boss.

Im trying to understand what it’s like from an ND perspective because I don’t have any experience or knowledge of it. So to me, an ND person will be the same except the ‘holding it together’ is harder and the ‘snapping’ becomes a melt down. I may be talking out of my arse, I just want to understand it.

Still think there should be consequences for violent behaviour. I’m just trying to understand why it happens in the first place

Uh-huh.

What are your qualifications?

Oh look another it’s ok because we think she’s on the spectrum excuses !!!

Really, what total bull sh!t, you’ve allowed a 13 yr old to do this, doesn’t just come out of no where so there’s obviously been a build up that you already haven’t dealt with

If you're asking this in good faith, then I'll answer.

Generally, yes. If they have the emotional developmental skills to recognise others then absolutely.

I don't like to generalise like this though as there are autistic people with high needs and a lack of understanding for their environment and others that may not feel remore in the same way. There will be autistic people who fall somewhere in the: absolutely remorseful but needs support to understand specifically and exactly how it impacts others group too, as they might not have the emotional literacy skills to realise the gravity of the impact.

Having a reduced lack of emotional reciprocation also doesn't mean a lack of empathy or dissonance, but how the emotions are displayed. This means some people might perceive we're not remorseful because we're not behaving how they would, when we are internalising a lot of our shame and empathy for others regarding our actions.

Yes we also have calm down time in the room before bed for a good chunk of time

No such thing as a typical brain - NT doesn't exist. No one has defined what a typical brain is as all brains are different.

People will snap at others and they are in control of who they snap at and when.

Mum of an autistic DD here. Yes, sorry but I think actually but you are being unreasonable, as ridiculous as that may sound to the majority, especially if you suspect she is on the spectrum. For her to have a meltdown like this she would have been in a state of complete dysregulation and would have have lost all control in that moment. You need to figure out how she got to that place - sensory overwhelm?Overstimulation? autistic burnout? too many demands?, transition anxiety? Out of "spoons"? If these terms mean nothing to you, I would start googling. She needs support as she will likely have been in a high state of anxiety and as you say you're at the end of your rope, I'm assuming this isn't the first time. Punishment won't help and will cause more damage in the long run. Also if you think she might be autistic, have you thought of getting her assessed?

I agree with you, I think there has to be a consequence to an action to learn from. Think of it more as decompression than grounding.

even if SEN, it gives a reason not an excuse, and for their own help they’d be better learning the right choices in life.

Meaning you were in control of where and when it happened. It isn't bad faith I find that awful to suggest that people who are autistic are a danger to others. They absolutely are not.

My 12 year old DD is autistic. She rarely melts down, but when she does, the worst ones are caused by bed time after a school trip or day out. That's the only time she ever becomes violent or destructive. We've figured out these meltdowns are caused by the stress of transitioning from "A Fun Day", because in her head once she goes to sleep the "Fun Day" is over and she doesn't want it to end. Because she thinks in such literal and black and white terms, in the moment she cannot see there will be other "Fun Days".

Your daughter DOES need to feel consequences, but if you suspect she's autistic I would say you need to stick with natural and logical consequences because if she can SEE the reasoning behind the punishment, she's more likely to be receptive to it long term. The other thing to keep in mind is that with neurodivergent children a punishment that lasts a week doesn't always have the same effect as on a typical child because their brains work differently. I wouldn't be surprised if the impact of a grounding wears off after a day or two.

If this was my DD, I would cancel her friends coming over and explain it as "You were violent to me for no reason, I don't want to risk you being violent to your friends so they can't come over this weekend"

I would also allow her to have access to her devices on the condition that all conversations and communications are fully supervised by an adult for two days so we can make sure DD doesn't lash out at her friends. I've found this is more effective than just taking the phone because she feels more impact at having to be supervised and then doesn't want to use her devices anyway.

I wish I could tell you how to prevent the meltdowns. The only thing we've found has helped is implementing the option of "calm down time" an hour before bed. That's just where DD has the option to stay downstairs with us, or chill in her bedroom alone. She actively asks for calm down time and will usually watch a low stimulation program whilst drawing.

Hugs and solidarity ❤️

This I do not know as I am not an expert. I’m sure someone with more knowledge will answer but if I had to guess I would say yes, they would. To different degrees as I’m sure there is a lot of variance within people with ND just as there is within people who are NT

My son has additonal SEN and behabioural needs and we went through a period of time where he couldn't regulate his emotions at all. I once got a hot bowl of casserole poured over my head during an meltdown. I don't have any advice really you seem to have done the right things leading up to it and tried to pre empt it. I just wanted to comment because I too felt and sometimes do feel furious/disappointed/annoyed at him for his behaviour, and like you, it was only ME he did it to, not his friends or his dad and I want you to know you aren't alone in those feelings. Mumsnet I sometimes find will berate you because you haven't put on a smile and said 'well she does have additional needs' and almost pander to it.
You are also a human being and did not and do not deserve to be hit etc. I also would and have taken away my sons devices and grounded him for similar behaviour. But I've also taken out the time a few hours/day after to discuss with him why that isn't acceptable. He does normally actually feel really guilty after he's calmed down and can tell me why he knows its unacceptable etc. I hope that's the same for you.

So autistic people who have violent meltdowns feel horrible about the pain they've caused?

My understanding is that lack of remorse isn’t a feature within ND

As I've said before I don't have any experience with this. If the person can't control it, do they feel remorse after? Like "omg, what did I do? I hit them."

Similar issues with DS and punishments made things a LOT worse. Out the other side now with professional help- can’t recommend these guys enough capafirstresponse.org

I mean, in fairness, many NT people will snap at those closest to them when they’re stressed or under pressure.
I know I have to avoid my mother when I’m not in a good headspace for this reason!
And I am NT and largely in control of myself

Of course being physical is never ok but I’m not sure grounding for a week is a good punishment.

What would be the benefit of grounding her for a week?

I think what she did was awful but you’ve said at least 3 punishments which I think is too much.

You also need some sort of leverage. If you take everything away then what else do you have.

I think your punishment is reasonable. She cannot behave like that

you’d be being unreasonable. i’m autistic and i had violent meltdowns at that age, although i self-harmed rather than attacking someone else (as i frequently wanted to). i also can’t imagine not feeling totally smothered in a way that would have made me lash out by my mother spending two hours stroking my hair, although your dd may be different, aversion to touchiness is definitely very common. punishment will be totally unhelpful and lead to more stress for her. best thing usually is something she can take aggression out on eg soft toys thrown at wall.

also important to remember that she’s really really unlikely to attack anyone else and she’ll 100% grow out of it as she learns to self-regulate better. tbh the best thing to do when melting down is for you both not to touch her, not to say anything, and leave the room.

Suppressing distress in public doesn’t mean we’re in control, it means we’re masking. That’s not regulation, it’s fear and shame-based survival. The meltdown happens at home because that’s where it can happen. Not because we planned it.

I could go on and on about delayed processing too if you'd like, while you're doing your bad-faith logic twisting.

Yeah, your daughter is knackered from masking so has to hit you.

Yip.

She couldn't possibly just have a quiet five minutes on her own to chill out. Oh no.