To wonder if people were actually healthier when everyone smoked

of course there were. There maybe be more now but this has little to do with smoking.

The UK also has a tradition of inquests for any sudden death, just to make sure it's all above board. Most of these are formalities but it still gets done properly. So there's always a medical opinion of what specific disease caused the death because the coroner won't accept "He just keeled over on the way to the bus stop". In contrast, in France (and many other European countries) there have to be positive suspicious circumstances before any sort of formal investigation is started.

I am not advocating euthanasia at all!

I am just saying that for me, personally, I believe in the quality of life, not the quantity. It was said to me by my oncologist when I had triple negative breast cancer and opted for a mastectomy rather than months of gruelling chemotherapy and radiotherapy (that incidentally would have taken place during the first lockdown). That treatment would have taken about eight months, whereas I was cancer-free in six weeks. My choice of treatment was absolutely right for me at the age of 60, but obviously wouldn't be right for everyone.

It was also said to DP at his first oncology appointment. Are you suggesting that all these oncologists stop using the phrase because you don't like it?

I also know someone else who had bowel cancer which spread to the liver. After a few years of gruelling treatment, he decided to stop the treatment and his decision was respected by his oncologist. Someone else I know who had lung cancer decided he didn't want the treatment as it would only be prolonging his life by a few months. It wouldn't be a cure.

My friend has recently lost her mum after she had spent five years in a care home. My mum spent two years in one before she died. She originally spent a year with me, but then became too poorly and I also had to consider the welfare of my two DC (their quality of life) who were young at the time. Both myself and my friend have said we definitely don't want to end up in a care home.

I absolutely respect your decision to want to live as long as possible no matter what your quality of life. It's a shame you are unable to respect mine.

My apologies. They have been around for about 20 years, but not been used on the huge scale that we see now. My friend ended up having to have an urgent cholecystectomy after taking Mounjaro, so that has definitely put me off!

Wow, @samarrange, didn't know that about mort subite. Seems a bit of a cop-out!

You've taken what i've said totally out of context (let alone implied smoking isn't all bad...) and woven a narrative around it.

I've also never said that everyone ends up in a CH with dementia either.

My point is that we have reduced smoking rates which should have led to longer and healthier lives but have not taken advantaged of this, instead doing less exercise and replaced smoking with poor food choices, becoming so fat that even airline seats are often too small for our fat lardy arses...and that sadly includes children...

Don't be ridiculous OP, obesity has not increased due to less smoking. Society has changed in those 50 yrs. Manual labour has dramatically reduced and the options of unhealthy foods has rocketed.

If smoking had continued as the way it was all we have today is obese smokers sat at desks

Utterly ridiculous rage bage post. Smoking causes cancer. There is nothing remotely healthy about it. And, worse, it causes OTHER people to get cancer too! Next question.

They have been around a long time for treating diabetics - an already sick population. In the current usage for weightloss, they have not been around a long time, and longterm effects are unknown for this population.

They’ve been around 10 plus years, they’re not s new drug.

Very good point about the economy.

Successive governments have done a good job of killing of pubs, maybe restaurants will be next. SNP did their best with the covid nonsense (safe to go for lunch but not dinner)

It's crazy we really need heavy industry back.

Of course it's better that people achieve and maintain a healthy weight, but I wonder what the economic impact will be. I sometimes think food is the only growth industry in the UK. Coffees, smoothie bars, candy stores, new fast food places springing up every week. And then the entire supermarket aisles dedicated to chocolate and crisps. If people become self-conscious about their weight, these trades are in for a rude awakening. I read recently about restauranteurs starting to worry because of the sheer numbers of people on WLI and only picking at food.

Make your case for being Doctor Death somewhere else, this is a weird, creepy and deeply offensive post and absolutely irrelevant to the thread.

As I said, you die early if you want. I genuinely do not care one way or the other, weird internet stranger, you do you.

And those who want to keep living can keep doing that.

There is nothing more to say.

I have reported this with the following comment: "Deeply offensive, Doctor Death shoving euthanasia down other people's throats."

Define early. Is it 70, 80, 90, 100?

Some people can cope with certain health conditions better than others. I have multiple health conditions and seem to get another one each year. Not only does that affect me, but it also affects my DD who has to take me to numerous medical appointments. I could get hospital transport, but that's a right old kerfuffle and my stress levels would go through the roof! At the moment, she is also taking my DP to his medical appointments as he is terminally ill with lung cancer.

Perhaps you would enjoy being a burden to others, but I certainly wouldn't. I already have a care package in place, and certainly wouldn't want to be cared for 24 hours a day. If you are reasonably fit and well, you can't possibly say how you would feel if your health majorly deteriorated. What's right for you, might not be right for others, and I was only expressing how I feel. I certainly wasn't advocating for anyone else.

I remember when lots of older people smoked and they would have the most awful goopy deep coughs I've ever heard. It sounded like they were about to hack up a lung.

A lot of obesity is related to diet and the changes in food production, at least in the US. We eat a lot of food shaped objects with little nutritional value

It's fine for you to die early if you want that.

No matter if you personally consider other people's level of social interaction or health to be of an acceptable degree to make their life worth living or saving, most want to live.

There's no way this is a real question. You'd have to have the brain of a sparrow to even think this for a brief second.

Obesity is being caused by messed up food, fast food, pushing fast food constantly, internet and gaming addictions, incredibly low numbers of people exercising and eating healthily, people driving everywhere instead of as they used to walking nearly everywhere, and all sorts of immune deficiences and illness that are huge in the current population. There are about a hundred threads to pull at re obesity. Being addicted to cigarettes is not one.

Smoking as well as being obese would give you an even bigger chance of dying early.

But you already know this.

Lifestyle risk factors can prevent upwards of 40% of dementia cases. (Up to 60% of cancer cases can be prevented with lifestyle changes also.)

One of the major lifestyle risk factors for both is smoking, and includes passive-smoking:

• Stop smoking uptake and support individuals to stop smoking (which the authors stress is beneficial at any age).

The Lancet: 40% of dementia cases could be prevented or delayed by targeting 12 risk factors throughout life | Alzheimer's Society

My widowed friend is nearly 81 and she walks a mile each way to visit me once every couple of weeks. She has osteoarthritis and a mild type of eczema, but that's all. She has never smoked and only drinks occasionally. She takes part in the library reading group who get together once a month, and the U3A writing group. She also goes to her DD's house a couple of times a week (two buses) to be there for when her youngest GD gets home from school.

I, on the other hand, am 66 and have multiple health conditions which all basically started 20 years ago. It's fine to get old if you are fit and healthy with lots of social interaction, but not so good if you have lots of health conditions. I certainly believe in quality over quantity.

Thinner also doesn't automatically = healthier!

The winner is France: "The country has one of the lowest rates of cardiovascular and coronary disease.

This is probably due to French death certification practices, which allow the cause of death to be recorded as "sudden death" ("mort subite"), especially if it's a massive unexpected heart attack outside of a healthcare setting.

In fact death certification is widely variable even within countries. There are parts of the US where the death rate from atherosclerotic heart disease (as measured by what's on the certificate) is 2% and others where it's 20%. This again is very likely to be substantially the result of local medical practices and traditions.

Also, WorldAtlas.com is basically a listicle site. The top 16 countries in that list only have 1 year difference in life expectancy between them, and those figures are 10 years out of date. But in any case, the "lowest rates of cardiovascular and coronary disease" is just a bit of throwaway content. Given that those diseases are the biggest killers in most countries, if they really were much lower in France then surely we would expect France to be several years out in front of the other countries.

Good point.

All these new 'wonder' drugs always end up having a nasty downside. Vaping was thought to be brilliant, and then they discovered popcorn lung. Going back further, we have Thalidomide which caused missing and deformed limbs in babies. Diazepam which was found to be highly addictive if used for long periods. These are just things off the top of my head. It just makes me very sceptical.

No, I am saying that not all elderly people come to the same bleak end you seem so convinced they do. My MIL just turned 86 and is fitter, healthier and has more energy than I do at 57 (chronic health issues). Similar story with my dad who got to his mid-80s before ill health set in.

Yes, they are/were lucky and many of their cohorts haven't been. Yes, dementia will catch up with many of us if we live long enough, but statistically it's still a minority. Which is not to trivialise how distressing it is for those who get it, but I'm just getting a tad fed up of this narrative from some on MN that we'd better all hope for an early demise otherwise we're going to go out screaming and shitting the bed.

And to imply that smoking isn't all bad because at least you die fast is plain bizarre.

The reverse of that is if there are less obesity then there is more pressure on young people to stay slim.

It's easier to drop a few pounds than to drop a few stone.
We all seem to have forgotten what normal looks like not helped by vanity sizing and jeans with stretch.

Don't recognise yours.... and you re not really adding much to the discussion either....

Or are you saying we are all getting healthier and adult social care is no longer an issue?