Mr Tumble at school?

Good point, May half term is the same everywhere as it's a break in the middle of GCSE and A levels. It carnt change for this reason.

I'm not trying to prove anything.

I'm am pointing out that Makaton has many many pitfalls.

I am doing lots in my professional life on a daily basis.

BSL should be being used on a daily basis it has so many benefits across the board (from complex needs, to inclusion and multilingual and multimodal benefits for all).
I mention English language because no one would attempt to create a system to replace English (despite English being complex and difficult for those with complex needs). But if you consider the same being done to other minority languages like Welsh for example (history of both Welsh and BSL have many similarities) then maybe you can understand why Makaton and other systems are so bad.

When we deny the children with complex needs who struggle with auditory languages access to visual / signed language this is the same as depriving them of auditory language. Language is all around so if they can access it they will. This is why visual language like BSL needs to be seen all around too.

I am Deaf, I have children (one with complex needs), I work in language development and specifically with young people who have not had access to accessible language. I am fluent in BSL and fully knowledgeable/skilled in Makaton and signalong.

I understand parents will grasp into anything that may help. The reality is that Makaton will give the illusion of working (because the signs are BSL and this aids communication), and parents will loves this. Communication is the aim and communication improves. The issue is that it's surface gain and not full potential gain. The risk is that the young person does not achieve their potential and Makaton has limits.

Whenever anyone speaks against Makaton, there is so much conflict and denial. Take a pause and consider. I weigh up the situation regularly and I consider other perspectives. I have seen no evidence that Makaton can offer anything different to what BSL already offers.

What are you trying to prove?
If you're not happy with what's out there, do something about it.
BSL is a structured language with, according to Google, only 151,000 users. Unless you are dedicated and have a specific need, you aren't going to see it being used and not mainstream. English language is obviously spoken all the time, so how are additional needs children/adults being deprived of language.

Have you had children of your own? Are you deaf? Do you have a special needs child/adult in the family? Or, do you just teach/preach? What exactly is your area of expertise?

The irony is this is my area of expertise.

Give me an example of a sign in Makaton that is easier than the same sign in BSL?
I have many examples of signs in Makaton that have been made harder from a dexterity, co - ordination and cognitive perspective.

Give me an example in English language where a word has been changed to make it easier for children with additional needs and how this adaptation has become used in the mainstream

Not on point but I remember reading a long running thread with posters who claimed to have/had slept with 'slebs and somebody wrote a post about Mr Tumble 😀

You said children can't manage to learn BSL because of additional needs (despite Makaton being from BSL and the signs are BSL)
The reason signing (using the BSL signs) helps children is because eit is visual language. The non verbal children struggle with auditory languages of English. So I'm asking why hasn't a auditory system been created. Why are we denying these children proper sign language access. We don't deny them English.

We accept that some children won't speak English correctly. We don't deny them English and stop speaking to them.

If we deny them access to visual language of BSL we are limiting their potential. Some children may only ever learn key words and/or key signs used on single word sign level. That is ok we meet the person where they are

Other children with exposure to language may learn more. This is why we don't stop using language with children. If a child never comes across the word car they won't ever have the chance of learning the word car.

With Makaton we are denying children and young people the opportunity to learn and develop.

With BSL / SSE we are ensuring they have every opportunity

And that is why Makaton is so dangerous - it is pre deciding that certain children can not learn, it is pre deciding that this group of people can only learn a limited number of words/signs (a specific set of words only).

If we decide at 4 years old that child B won't ever be able to tie their laces so we don't need to develop fine motor skills we are limiting their potential. By allowing access to skills and opportunities we widen the potential and if they don't tie their show laces they will have developed other skills through access to opportunities

You clearly have no experience at all with minimally or non-verbal children with severe learning difficulties. Their needs are entirely different from those if children who are deaf.

This discussion will continue to go nowhere while you refuse to accept that that is the case. We are not talking about children who simply cannot produce words. We're talking about children with cognitive disabilities, but who we desperately need to be able to express their needs with single words, signs or symbols.

Some signs need to be simpler for these children than the BSL signs, as many of them simply don't have the dexterity or ability to copy the more difficult signs, that deaf children without cognitive or developmental issues can use. That's why Makaton exists.

What are you on about?
Yes there has been critisism that Makaton doesn't encourage 'conversation'. What about the non verbal though?

Young children with extra learning needs struggle to do English to conversational standards. Where is the auditory based system that you can purchase and learn to help them. Using some words from English alongside made up sounds and without Grammar?

Obviously we have to ensure they don't have access to English as this would be too difficult for them right?

Oh, and I use the word 'hearing impaired' as that's what I am and what I use.
I don't mind other terms if others are happy to use them.

Makaton is different to BSL. Makaton is based on signs to support the English language, so people with learning difficulties can communicate. That is different to hearing impaired people who use BSL, which has it's own grammar etc.
Both have very valuable uses based on need.
Young children with extra leaning needs would struggle to do BSL to conversational standards. BSL is a language on it's own. Makaton helps people learn basic signs to communicate their needs. You really can't compare.

Please don't use the term hearing impaired it is really offensive.
In my personal experience it is very difficult to speak out against Makaton in a school setting so I very much doubt you know their true feelings in Makaton or understand the damage Makaton has caused

What does bug me is that Justin Fletcher gets all the credit for the series, when he is just an actor who was selected to be the main character.

It's the people who had the idea for the series, wrote it and brought it to fruition who deserve the kudos. And I bet none of us knows their names.

We had four BSL signers (three of them deaf) at my school, working alongside some if the more able children who were hearing impaired. One of the signers ran the evening classes that some of us took to gain the level 1 qualification.

None of them seemed to agree with you, @Leftrightmiddle . Both BSL and Makaton had their place in our school.

Oh God the theme tune is in my head now!

I actively make my youngest watch it as I think it’s great for inclusivity and learning marathon which is a useful skill. We also did baby sign when my child was very young. I was speaking to a parent of a 9 year old recently about Mr Tumble and she shared that there was a child at her school who none of the other children could communicate with as he was deaf. Her youngest was able to engage in basic conversation as he had learnt makaton from Mr Tumble when younger and it made a huge difference to this child’s early school days.

Takes no more time to learn 10 signs of BSL than 10 signs of Makaton. If they can afford the highly inflated Makaton course cost then the money would be better spent on BSL.
Hour on hour cost Makaton cost is high than BSL.
If a school is choosing to send 1 member of staff in a 6 hour Makaton course they could use that money and get a BSL expert into to the school and train the whole staff team.

Nah, OP your child probably found it boring precisely because they watched the more educational version of Mr Tumble “Something Special” - all Makaton signing and friendship and disability inclusivity. It’s definitely suitable in limited amounts for reception age as well as nursery.

Personally my 3 year old finds it boring for those educational reasons! He prefers “Justin’s House” which truly is fairly inane silliness, but it has a puppet monster so is bound to be a bigger hit… I’d maybe be a bit more concerned if they were watching that one but not “Something Special” (as I assume is the case here?) - its another way to make them aware of differences in a positive way (even if the other educational content in it might be too young/easy for them).

My dc enjoyed it when they were about two. None they are four they've outgrown it and actively dislike it so I doubt they'd be impressed to watch it in reception. But, as pp have said, it has some merits.

Yes. BSL is a language in itself. Makaton is an augmentative language system. They fulfill very different needs.

@Leftrightmiddle I appreciate you have strong views on this topic. As the parent of a Deaf person who was educated in a Deaf education system, and is a BSL user, I share some of your concerns. However, this discussion is more around children being exposed to alternative methods of communication, which cannot be seen as anything other than beneficial for everyone - even the profoundly Deaf - as it brings signing into the mainstream. The OP was commenting on the benefits of watching the programme at all; they have acknowledged it clearly has value for others and posters have explained why. Would I have loved to see more BSL used? Absolutely! But anything that normalises sign in a way that children feel included is never a bad thing. DD loved it, even though she could only understand half of it; it's still half more she could have understood in any other programme as a young child.

I spent a year learning BSL as well as using Makaton at work. Given the huge number of poorly paid TAs working in special schools, it would be entirely impractical and unreasonable for them to need to give up a huge amount of time learn BSL, when they could learn Makaton pretty much on the job.

Again, these are not deaf children, they are children who need to be able to communicate very basic needs.

I feel that any further discussion on this is irrelevant to the op and somewhat of a thread jack. You clearly have strong feelings, but they have little bearing on the question the OP asked.

He was also incorrectly signing happy in a way that was extremely inappropriate for a children's show.
Under the guidance of advisors high up in Makaton who also didn't know that the Makaton had made such an error in copying the BSL sign for happy.

And here lies part of the issue. Every deaf child and their family should have easy access to BSL alongside a package of support including technology.they don't and in many cases Makaton is to blame due to it seen as a more oralist approach.

Families grab into anything that aids communication. And no one blames families for doing what ever they can. The issue is why does so much funding go towards a limited system rather than an actual language with lifelong benefits. Why are deaf children still being denied language. Why are disabled children being denied fully accessible language? Why are we not promoting quality, skilled, qualified staff for every child to ensure their needs are met.

Someone skilled in BSL can use these signs as BSL, as SSE or as key word sign.
Someone with Makaton qualifications often have had only 6 hours training and can only give such limited support. Children deserve more

The signs were taken from BSL so the signs themselves can not be too difficult.
The grammar is different just like grammar varies between all languages across the globe.

BSL can be used as SSE (sign supported English) for those needing an auditory support. Which still respects BSL as a language without pretending it is something different.

Makaton is an extremely poor quality and limited version of SSE. Makaton should never have been set up as the signs already existed. The support should have been done by utilizing the experts (BSL users) and being respectful to the source language.
If you think Makaton creators (BSL theirs and oppressors) actually cared about SEN kids over their own self importance they would have ensured the expert skills were utilized and respected.

Makaton is a travesty for how they abused the deaf community.
Please note this isn't about any person's right to use signs as every family should have access and support to communicate. This is about the historic and ongoing oppression and abuse of the deaf community and the Makaton aim to limit and oppress those with additional needs by limiting their potential