Mr Tumble at school?

@Leftrightmiddle
I have no skin in the game but I hear what you are saying.

You think that Cbeebies should be using full on BSL rather than Makaton for kids programs.

Your right we don't dumb down English for children Ta instead if thankyou, the only other words I can think of that are dumbed down are body parts and functions, tummy, winkie, flower and pee!

I absolutely agree with you that in general adult's expectations of the majority of children are woefully low. Also expecting kids to read/do some colouring or get on with unfinished work quietly for 10 min instead of watching TV might require more practice/discipline and initially be hard work/frustrating for the teacher.

It's a shame that your thread has been totally derailed into a debate on BSL, makaton, and Justin because I'd love to hear other parents' and teachers' perspectives on your point. When did this amount of TV in school become normal? Do current teachers feel it's impossible to get through a school day without occasional zombification of the kids? What are the practical differences between now and say 30 or 40 years ago, that means this seems to be necessary now?

Absolutely loved the way we used to live. There was one set in ww1. Love history to this day.
Sat on library Carpet and tv rolled in. Once a week. My dc watched Auntie Mabel in reception. I really wouldn’t be concerned about a small amount of tv.

I'm not critical of families doing the best they can. I respect families, unfortunately families are often left with no or little support for too long. That's my point the system is wrong. Families should have access to skilled professionals promptly and freely. The right professionals for the situation. This means for families with communication needs this should be language expertise from BSl alongside PECs, communication boards, speech therapist. This should be physio for those who need support, it should be technology, devises what ever is needed.

The issue is Makaton organisation, it is the way it was started. It is that the promotion and use of it actually is preventing access to BSL/SSE from skilled sources from the families that need it most.

Are you this rude with everyone?

Most British families are in no better a position to teach their children BSL than they are Greek or Finnish. Many families get little to no outside support with their language delayed or disordered child until they start nursery, school or even later and, even then, that support is limited unless they have access to private support. They do what works for them to help them and their child communicate with each other with the resources they can muster.

Let's try and explain this using English

English do you stop your child hearing English until an age you think they can use full English correctly? No that would be weird right because to learn English they need access to English.

Some words in English are hard to pronounce why haven't these words been changed because some children will struggle. Child A can't say cob therefore some people decided that the only acceptable word for bread roll will now be balm. Problem is while balm is easier for children with lips it is harder for children with stutters but that's tough right as someone has decided that the one word is easier. Certain aspects of society aren't happy that there accent and dialect is being banned.
While they are at it a decision is made that difficult place names will now be changed to how toddlers say it as it is too difficult and some people may always struggle to say the proper word. Therefore it is better to use the incorrect word across the board. They also decided that some spellings should be changed.
These decisions were made by non English speakers and using their own root language as a basis they decided English grammar was wrong and so changed that too.

If we give access to incorrect information this is not a positive. If we accept that poorly trained individuals are enough, that the most vulnerable in our community don't deserve skilled, trained and knowledgeable people working with them then we are failing and letting down those who need the expertise, care and support the most.

There was, Yes.

Me too

The programmes I recall mine (now 23 and 21) watching were

Something Special
Justin and Sarah ? Justin's House ? Forget its actual name
The wonderful Come Outside (One of my favs)
Ballamoray
Numberjacks

There were others but these stand out in memory.

Teaching a small child some Makaton is not giving up on teaching them language. It's not a complete language like BSL is but a tool to support early development, giving an opportunity to express wants and needs. It's easy for a whole family to learn before their child is in any educational setting and children with limited or no spoken language very often end up in mainstream schools, anyhow.

Would you describe using TEACCH or PECS as giving up, too? They are also supportive tools.

How can you do Makaton but not BSL (Makaton signs come from BSL). It would be impossible to be able to do a Makaton sign and not the BSL sign
Makaton use the same hand shapes, the same locations, the same movements.

This is one of the the myths started by makaton.

The signs they have changed (usually by error, sometimes for no logical reason) they have actually made more complicated

I'm dyspraxic and I'm bloody lucky to not be deaf, because I can't sign for shit. But I can do makaton with my (hearing) son.

Usually they watch something during snack time or wet break/lunch time. Having 30 reception kids in one classroom with one dinner lady is usually utter chaos without putting something on the screen for them to watch.

I used to be delighted when they wheeled the big TV in
We watched ,"The way we used to live "quite often.

When my DC was at primary school , there was a child in their class whose sibling had some quite severe learning difficulties. They used Makaton to communicate as the child was non-verbal.
The primary school spent some time learning sign language as well to facilitate deaf pupils.
I understand they also used Makaton for another pupil who was non-verbal.

All these people horrified about TV in schools...
Do you not remember Words and Pictures (for Infants age) and Look and Read (Juniors)?
In my primary days (80s) we also listened to schools programmes on the radio !
The radio ones came with workbooks if I remember correctly and were a mixture of storytelling and songs.

My dd school seemed to do half the teaching by watching videos. When not watching videos it was reading off a Twinkl PowerPoint then doing a Twinkl worksheet. all through KS1. Everything in moderation is fine but I felt it was excessive.

Omg! I love Gigglebiz, my DIL and I laugh like idiots when it’s on. 😆

Whether or not Mr Tumble is a sudo educational tool for inclusivity or sign language is by the by in my opinion. By that argument let's sack the nursery teachers and plonk the kids in front of alphablocks, numberjack's and Mr Tumble all day. These programmes are all fine, and I'd prefer my kid to watch Cebbebies output over the random crap on Pop, but they're not a substitute or even a useful addition to education delivered by a trained human.

I don't think it's right for kids to watch any TV at school, with the exception of maybe a film on the last day of term. It's lazy. It's a way to zombify the kids for ten minutes so the teacher can do x y or x. When DD was at primary she was watching a 10 min YouTube cartoon every morning after registration, then few Mr Bean cartoons through the day. This was supposed to be an outstanding school. I understand teachers have more sen kids to look after, more paperwork, and are now trained to be more akin to a child's friend rather than an authority figure. But we shouldn't accept this is ok

Makaton is based on BSL. The signs in Makaton aren't simpler (Makaton myth) or easier to produce many are actually more complex from a dexterity, co-ordination and cognitive perspective due to the artificial changes and errors made by makaton.

All Languages are equally complex in their nature. A 2 year old child wouldn't have mastered the grammar of their first language we don't however decide that no 2 year old can learn Spanish, French or English because it is too complex.
Some children will grasp the grammar of the language used at home quickly others may use single word answers for longer. Some may never master fluency / perfect grammar. In no other language do we pre decide that a child is incapable of learning and just give up.

CBeebies does some amazing shows, of which the Justin Fletcher stable are some of the best. I hadn't realised how much Makaton I'd absorbed until a deaf child joined the Cub pack is used to lead.

DS's particular favourite was The Lingo Show. He's nearly 17, but can still count to ten and say Hello in several languages!

Why?

Justin fletcher is totally gross.

This has got to be a joke? How can you not know who Mr Tumble is 😂😂

BSL is also complex. Some special schools using whole school communication use it throughout but some preverbal children with additional needs have motor difficulties so find the simpler signs easier to learn.

DS2 only ever mastered "mine" and "more" 😂Alphablocks was his communication breakthrough. He developed a huge obsession when he was 8 and started to make the words with wooden blocks, which progressed to typing and then he started to imitate the sounds they made. He's 19 now and hasn't shut up since.