“Paedophile hunters”

I’m all for this.

And the Police do it too now.

Autistic or not, they’re looking for children online and if this stops a single real
child being harmed, then its A good thing IMHO.

My first concern is welfare of children not those talking inappropriately to them.

@shoelady2you are right. It's hell for the family who have done nothing wrong. I've been there. As well as dealing with the enormity of what happened I had people messaging me, people saying I knew, my kids should be taken off me, I must be thick as shit to be married to someone like that. Someone I thought was a friend tagged me in the bloody video for all to see. My calls and visitors at work were screened for a while as I didn't feel safe (we have a very unusual surname and I was afraid someone might realize.) I was scared for my children having to go to school and potentially be bullied but luckily that didn't happen, possibly due to their ages at the time. But to be a teenager when everyone is on social media must be soul destroying. The only blessing is that the live stream did not occur at our home so people didn't attack the house. I really think it should be illegal to stream or report on these cases in any way which makes it possible to identify the family. I will not comment in public about the specifics of the case or its outcome but these clowns couldn't run a bath let alone a vigilante group.

Exactly, I've heard quite a few of these cases and never heard of one where the fake child sent pictures. Usually the paedo sends pics and asks for pics from the 'child' who makes excuses.

It's 'reasonably believed' so if there is any evidence that they mentioned school/their age/were wearing uniform etc then that would constitute a crime.

With the online paedophile hunters, and with undercover police who do the same thing, it's always made very clear the (non-existent) child being contacted is under 16. The point of fakes like this is to catch someone who might otherwise harm a child before they actually harm one. To get the most severe sentences they have to make a plan to meet a child rather than just exchanging messages.

Although vigilantism is frowned upon, people who know what they're doing and how to get the right evidence for a rightful conviction can be of help to the police.

On the other hand, people taking the law into their own hands in a violent way or causing criminal damage to a paedophile's house for example, get no sympathy from me. There was a known paedophile in our town and his house constantly had its windows/doors smashed and graffiti scrawled on it. It was terrifying for the neighbours as they worried about someone setting fire to the place (terraced house). After he died the property maintenance people put up signs saying so and asking people to stop damaging the house, because they kept repairing windows only for them to be smashed again.

Yep, I hope so too. I have a closer-than-average insight into courts (at least in my part of the UK) and whilst I don’t work in criminal justice myself, I do think that when psych reports are called for, 99% of the time the psychiatrist can see through any malingering.

So what’s the answer when it comes to adults with conditions that may mean they don’t realise their actions could be considered inappropriate?

Probably the same as it is now, @Kibble19 - pre-sentencing reports which will almost certainly identify issues such as this

They'll identify a lot of claims that someone "didn't understand" too of course, but we can only hope there are enough who can tell the difference between someone who's genuinely affected and who's not

These groups also cause problems because:

1. They sometimes get it wrong. Not too long ago an innocent teenage lad got attacked by one of these groups and it was his dad who was the perpetrator. His family hadn't known, then they'd found out, and disowned him but his older teenage son was a "junior" and the shared name led to the lad who'd just had his world torn apart was attacked
2. It can compromise the police investigations if their evidence is gathered incorrectly and it can't be used to get a conviction so as a result some of them get away

So what’s the answer when it comes to adults with conditions that may mean they don’t realise their actions could be considered inappropriate?

For me, if my hypothetical 10 year old was “friends” with a 34 year old online in any capacity, I don’t think I’d care what their apparent mental age was. Especially if there was any kind of inappropriate behaviour involved.
Parents should definitely be more involved in their kids online activity, and people with a mental age significantly lower than their chronological one need similar monitoring, I guess.

I game online (in VR) and sometimes get into a good little game session with someone who is a teen, or even a pre-teen. Sometimes we have a nice chat about everyday stuff whilst playing.
I am in my 40s and autistic.
We often add each other on the platform to compare scores. Not keep in touch.

There are many people with additional needs who are sex offenders - just like there are many neuro typical sex offenders

often people fail to adequately risk asses and struggle to believe that people with additional needs can offend and can be a great risk to children, especially when they lack empathy.

these offenders are far more likely to fall for the pedophile hunter traps and far more likely to take the risk in meeting them etc hence their over representation

I why do they stream it all over the internet then ? If they genuinely wanted to these paedophiles to be caught and punished for their crimes ,why are they jeopardizing any trial,that might take place?

I totally agree with you OP,.an autistic person with sn may be 18 years old may have a mental age of 8, 10 or 12 and will not see anything wrong with being a friend with a child as they are on the same mental level. Nothing sexual implied.

FWIW I'm not in favour of vigilante groups - especially those who aim to "sort it out themselves" rather than sending their findings straight to the police - but I doubt that many sexual predators openly admit to what they've done as long as they can think of a get-out

It used to be "My computer's been hacked" or "I only downloaded it accidentally and wasn't really looking, honest", and maybe "I'm autistic" is just the latest version?

Paedophile hunters also live in a world where they engage, disproportionately, with people who may abuse children.

Those I've worked with struggle to trust other adults and teach their children that unknown adults are not to be trusted. This can include new staff at school, health care professionals, little old ladies walking though the park who smile and say hello with no intentions of saying more.

It makes it really hard for their children to develop healthy boundaries, relationships and to access normal services.

Not overly impressed with the Scottish system from my experience. The Procurator Fiscal doesn't do a great job ensuring all facts are considered before charging, or indeed going to trial. So often even when charging at court, the sheriff is not in full awareness of the facts.

I think the CPS in England and Wales are a bit more selective in bringing cases with a reasonable chance of conviction.

That was meant to quote someone who said they didn’t understand how there could be an offence without an actual victim (obviously it didn’t work)

Not sure what the situation is in England, but Scotland hears many cases with a judge (sheriff) only. The idea of being they are considered impossible to be influenced by unrelated facts

And of course the offence can be clearly proven with chat files etc without the need to go mob handed to peoples doors or accost them in the street and broadcast it all over social media.

If anything with the increased resources required of the police to deal with the fall out from their social media video, they are actually taking officers away from dealing with crime.

Also the offence is “attempting to communicate indecently with a child” - yes it’s an adult, but these offenders are clearly seeking out children and believe they are talking to children

NC so this isn’t linked to my main username.

I’m a court journalist. Definite love hate relationship with them - on one hand a lot of the criminals coming through the courts for these offences have been caught by these groups.

But the fact they confront and video that in their “stings” rather than simply hand the evidence to police shows it’s more about their egos than protecting children.

A non-sexual chat is unlikely to be prosecuted and autism is no excuse for carrying out any crime. (Said as the parent of a medium-needs autistic child before anyone comes at me). Again a lack of capacity would be a factor considered in a decision on prosecution.

Your missing out the vital bit….the sexualised bit that this ‘set up’ person will encourage…..exchange of photos….and on it goes

vulnerable?? It’s the kid being groomed that takes precedence over being vulnerable!

How can families not be dragged in? Their husband/father/brother is all over social media. Thousands of people will see it and recognise them and the family then have to go face people often on the back of strangers commenting shit like ‘bet they knew what was going on’ or even attacking the house.

Yes this can happen when stories reach the press too but at least by that point all the facts and evidence have been collated. There are far too many cases of mistaken identity or things not being done properly.

Obviously it’s a highly emotive topic and I get that people want to help but vigilante justice is not the way. It can cause so many more problems.

I agree with OP, a lot of vulnerable people are set up. Someone befriends them.online, starts chatting, no.mention of age and then at them end says that they are 14 or something. The person is then filmed in front of their neighbours and loses everything. Absolutely awful.

Off the back of this thread I’ve watched a few more, this time on facebook

im not seeing anything like families being shamed or dragged in, it’s all been respectful. Also one of them said his own draught er had been groomed so this was his incentive to do this