Cannabis should not be decriminalised - AIBU?

I agree they give me the absolute boak.

Yes. Many heroin addicts have CPTSD from violence or sexual abuse.

Weed smokers, and this is the most commonly used drug in the UK after alcohol do not routinely work towards taking smack. They are usually thinking about snacks. They may even be accountants.

Ingestion and smoking create different types of Cannabinoids .

I’m a MH nurse working at a drug and alcohol service. I’m honestly not sure if cannabis should be legalised, there are pros and cons either way. What I do want to say is that heroin use is overwhelmingly linked to trauma. No one starts using heroin, or even coming into the orbit of regular heroin users, for the fun of it-and they certainly don’t move on to heroin from weed due to some hypothetical “gateway effect”. Heroin suppresses, usually horrific, memories and that’s why people get hooked.

Interesting @MooseAndSquirrelLoveFlannelI think some are unaware of the impact on others in some areas.

The trouble is with a tablet or edible form is that it takes ages to work, could be up to 2 hours. Not great when you're in agony and need prompt relief, which is what vaping can achieve. Dry herb vapes do not smell as much as smoking does and the smell dissipates much quicker.

The onset of opioid crisis predates legalization of cannabis in Canada.

I cannot find a single study that suggests cannabis legalization was led to increased opioid use. Studies range from saying it does reduce opioid use to that it might reduce opioid use.

https://sph.rutgers.edu/news/states-legalized-medical-marijuana-see-decline-nonmedical-opioid-use

Having suffered the horrific smell coming through the walls and antisocial antics cannabis provokes from previous nightmare neighbours who smoked 24/7, I personally dread it being decriminalised. Our neighbours were evicted, but if it had been legal we’d still be living with it now.

However, the real problem is antisocial behaviour and the attitude we have in the UK that people can do whatever they like in their own home even if it impacts others. Cannabis itself isn’t the issue (as far as that goes, I don’t know enough about the health aspect to have a view) and I’m sure many people enjoy it in a way that doesn’t negatively affect others.

That's one person. Im pretty sure most ppl i know have smoked it at some point and none of them turned out to be hard drug users. It is bad for mental health though, but so is alcohol!!

100% agree @beesandstrawberries. Can't believe the easy ride weed gets, no one seems to take it seriously, but a flat-out user has little to distinguish them from an alcoholic. Why do we need a nation of weedheads on top of the problems we've already got?

OK, I'll bite as I can see HAs and "enforcement" mentioned a few times..

I'm an ASB officer for a VERY large HA. We cover the whole of England.

I've worked this role for oooh, 20 years, give or take.

Cannabis smoking is our 3rd biggest report type, after verbal abuse and noise.

You know how many people I have evicted just for smoking cannabis......0.

Why?

Because HAs cannot evict their own residents, only a court can do that. That person could break every single section of their tenancy agreement, pay £0 rent and still unless a Judge agrees that person keeps their home. (There are mandatory possession grounds here, but cannabis smoking wouldn't apply)

I have secured evictions when that person is doing other ASB which is evidenced, but how do you evidence a smell? We rely on police finding the drugs, testing the drugs and convicting them in court for possession.

I did think I had a slam dunk case once. Up North in Derby, block of 6 flats. 1 prolific cannabis smoker. Perfectly polite resident but smoked like a chimney. 5 complainants, detailed diaries from each of dates/times they smoked it. Police issued CPWs (never found actual drugs but could smell it). 6 months of reports, cannabis smoker never, ever engaged with me..

So, I thought fuck it. Completed a proportionality assessment and served a NOSP. Breached NOSP so sent to court. 4 residents attended to give evidence, perp turned up, said he smokes it to "relax".

Judge turned to me and said "MrsMoose are you seriously suggesting I should make this person homeless, and unable to access ongoing housing purely because he is creating a bad smell"

"No Judge, I am asking for possession of the property because he is in breach of his tenancy, smoking an illegal substance and having a detrimental effect on his neighbours ability to enjoy their homes"

Judge responds "MrsMoose, I do not agree that a smell is enough to warrant making someone homeless. If the witnesses here don't like the smell, tell them to open their windows. Case dismissed. Costs to be paid by the Claimant"

So, we lost AND had to pay the dope heads legal fees.

Of course, very few Judges live in an area where prolific cannabis smoking is likely to be an issue..

But now, my HA will not enforce cannabis smoking unless it's linked to other ASB..

What we're seeing much more of now is young teenagers, mostly male, around 12-16yo getting involved with gangs and smoking cannabis. Their behaviour is vile, social services try to intervene but the family and teen doesn't engage properly and eventually it escalates until that teen does something serious. One particular case springs to mind where the boy stabbed a rival on a bus.

For HAs it's not just "sue" or "enforce". The legal system in this country is complex and HAs are required now under govt legislation to always be working to MAINTAIN tenancies, not applying for evictions.. it has to be some serious ASB to consider evictions and smoking cannabis is not that.

Believe me, it annoys me having to tell complainants this and directing them to the police reporting websites instead (knowing police won't do anything) but other than sending a letter saying we've had a report your smoking cannabis, please stop, there is little else a HA can do as the power lies with an outdated court system.

what do you think its a piece of paper and a fine and no further work for the police ?

Correct. The cost is huge. Penalising small time possession has failed

But cannabis use does seem to have increased in Canada, especially among teens.

It's not a gateway drug but it's damaging enough on it's own. I don't believe in decriminalisation, it's not the same as alcohol

Whilst true, the struggle to actually get it means a lot of people still end up having to buy on the street, or ideally, grow their own.

https://releaf.co.uk/blog/westminster-hall-debate-barriers-to-accessing-medical-cannabis-in-the-uk

As an aside, hemp is an amazing crop for improving soil health, sequestering CO2 and providing oil, fibre and animal feed into the bargain.

Of course it does. That's why they stopped doing it in the first place.

wouldnt take much resource to hand out on the spot fines and cautions I think

The youngsters will still want the strong skunk stuff available on black market tax free.

I think it's rather naive to believe that when legitimate businesses work overtime to rip off their customers, illegitimate businesses would somehow have the moral high ground.

I don't believe we are the kind of nation that can decriminalise and not have drug driving skyrocket.

If anyone wants to smell it and relive their youth just catch a London bus. It's basically permeated the fabric of the upper decks now.

Thailand's PM seems to have had enough, anyway. https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/thai-pm-says-cannabis-be-re-listed-narcotic-by-end-2024-2024-05-08/

I have no doubt that some will

The police can not police it it is too out of hand and too prevalent there is not the resources to

Money raised can also be put back into drug services

I agree. I’m tired of people saying it’s ‘just’ weed. everyone I know who smokes weed it has given them mental health issues, made them have really bad anger issues and it’s impacted their family life, social life, career, they’ve become lazy, impacted their fiannces - the list goes on.

I dated someone who was a severe cannabis user. When it went to family court I listed how it affected him and our child and despite it being proven (police reports of abuse and he failed multiple drug tests) courts said it was just cannabis and it wasn’t an issue. He would become a vegetable when he smoked, completely incapable of looking after himself and when he didn’t smoke, he would have withdrawals - he would become so angry and abusive. He would smoke so he wouldn’t work, and it ended up causing financial abuse too as all my wages would be going on him and his drug habit.

People who say it’s ‘only’ weed either smoke it themselves and don’t see the issue or they have never seen it first hand from a partner or a loved one. It doesn’t just ruin the life of the individual but it affects the people surrounding them too.

The youngsters will still want the strong skunk stuff available on black market tax free.
I think cannabis oil should be made easily available for medical purposes ( with a GP / specialist referral and cheaply)
Other than it should be illegal And the police need to start policing it

Worth pointing out that the moment you buy something on the street, then you have no idea what it is. So really this thread is debating (as noted) "stuff sold under the name cannabis". Which may - or may not - have anything to do with cannabis.

I do believe we should decriminalise cannabis

My support for this is so young people in particular can use milder strains of cannabis the influx of incredibly strong strains of skunk that is sold now and is the dominant use for young people is having a terrible impact on so many young peoples mental health