To want to know what you're sick of about men !

So why don’t you counter them instead of just saying they’re wrong?

You really have no idea how to interpret statistics.

Your figures don't mean what you think they do.

You say that only a handful, a tiny percentage of men are predisposed to violence but the stats tell us different things.

1 in 4 women will be raped by a man in their lifetime.
25% of women is 8 million women

You say that it wouldn't take much at all for me to resort to violence. From this I take that you mean it wouldn't take much at all for women to resort to violence.

The stats don't back this statement up.

A large majority (95.9%) of the prison population are* *male.

69% of the female prison population have committed a non violent crime.

Don't mansplain and talk down to me. Particularly NOT on a woman's forum.

Incel = involuntary celibate. Men who can't breed because women reject them for their toxic masculinity.

It's not the women who should be farm animals. It's the men. No more semen samples from men who exhibit aggressive tendencies. Breed that trait out.

And the 'toxic' traits of masculinity are those that involve wanting to dominate women or other men, aggression, selfishness, the traits that contribute to rape culture. Those traits are poisonous. WHY THE HELL should women revisit how we see those traits? We don't want them in any men that are anywhere near us. No need to change the way we think about it. Men need to evolve beyond seeing those traits as desirable. Or else they become undesired.

Masculinity can have a positive side too of course. But yes, there is a lot of toxicity in masculinity. Don't like it? Stand against it. Your POV as a man towards other men will always trump the POV of women. Use your influence for the good and aid in helping to neutralise the toxicity.

Absolutely spot on

Crumbs and ring marks from mugs because not one of them can use a fucking coaster.

The main provider is frequently more likely to be the woman these days, despite her carrying 90% of the domestic load.

What DO men bring to the table now?

I don't expect men to take any responsibility for my feelings and behaviour whatsoever. I don't believe anyone on this thread has said that either, or implied it.

I expect men to take responsibility for their own behaviour. I also expect them to take responsibility for addressing misogyny by other men when they see it. Too many men are still unwilling to do either of these things.

Also your point about "can you imagine if men started a thread like this about women" has been made over and over on this thread and, as multiple posters have explained, they do!! All. The. Time. There are many, many online spaces dedicated to expressing misogynist views and it's is also very common for men to make degrading, derogatory and offensive statements about women on pretty much every mainstream social media platform.

Why must we stop using terms like toxic? It's a very suitable prefix to denote an interpretation of masculinity that is harmful to both women and men. There seems to be a misconception that when we say toxic masculinity we mean that masculinity, ie, being male is toxic. This isn't and never was the meaning of the term. Toxic masculinity is simply a term that acknowledges that some of the stereotypes and expectations for men in our society, such as that they should be strong, aggressive, dominant etc, have resulted in behaviour that is problematic. Both for the women and men who are victims of those exhibiting its extremes, and for the men who do not match up to its requirements. Trying to stop the use of the term because you've misunderstood its meaning isn't helpful to women or men.

I don't think you know what the term "incel" means.

We will always have violent people, both men and women, there's nothing that can be done about that. Natural selection 🙄, would take countless generations of gene manipulation or selective breeding, are you suggesting we as a society should treat woman as farm animals?

It would be quicker, and I think more appropriate, to change how we view masculinity. We need to stop using words like "toxic", even the title of this thread is somewhat appalling. Can you imagine the reaction if there were a thread on a prominent, well known mens forum that was titled

"to want to know what you're sick of about women"

You would probably label all the posters incels! 🙄

But it's fine because we're women, we don't have to take any responsibility for men's feelings or behaviour, funny that we expect them to take responsibility for ours though.

It’s a basic necessity if you want a family, no?

So hopefully the weeding out of the genes that create violent men through natural selection (incels not breeding) will gradually rid the human race of men with violent tendencies. That plus a harsh and firm socialisation of male children. And a lot of that socialisation needs to come from men. Leading by example.

Ah ok, and in that I do agree somewhat. If people do try and make out vawg and violence against men are equal in terms of numbers and severity then that’s not correct, and minimises the impact on, and risk to, women.

when people say or imply all men act a certain way, or that no women are violent against men, that should rightly get highlighted as nonsense though.

to further your analogy, on a cat thread, people come on and say the cats never do that, or if they did it must be the dogs fault, or the dog issue is so huge we shouldn’t look at the cats.

People are literal mammals, we live under a VERY thin veneer of civilisation, don't kid yourself that you would never resort to violence, the truth is that it wouldn't take very much at all.

Now some dogs are just fucking dangerous, and no amount of training or socialisation can fix it. People aren't too different, we think we are, but some people are also just fucking dangerous, they are the XL Bullies of the world.

Men, as mammals, are more physical, violent and more prone to aggression than we are, not much more, but enough to make it noticeable. And a handful, a tiny percentage of men, are predisposed to extreme violence, and they don't care who they target. We also have a tiny proportion of violent women in prison too, it's not just men.

It's that tiny percentage of extremly violence that the majority of both men and women have to fear. So yeah, I think men are also sick of male violence, but that violence is more inate and animalistic.

No that analogy would be used for the NAMALTing. I chose my analogy specifically in response to the attempts to distract from male problem behaviour by setting up false comparisons with women's behaviour. Countering male VAWG stats with anecdotes about women they saw shouting at men on a night out is the equivalent of saying "Fatal dog attacks don't mean there's a problem with dogs. A cat once shat in my herbaceous border, so I think you'll find we have a problem with PETS"

Ah mansplaining 101.

Why are these posters repeatedly "pointing out" something that the OP herself has already pointed out in her OP?

I think if people did that on Dog threads there would, understandably, be some criticism.

It's not necessary.

The mansplaining..

No it’s like going on a thread about why people hate dogs and pointing out not all breeds are the same and not all dogs will shit in the house or bite your face off.

this happens on dog threads and no one criticises the NADALT people

Not the OP but I think it's important to note that you can have some wonderful men in your life who you love, respect and value and still recognise that we live in a patriarchal society that is fundamentally unfair and detrimental to women and girls in many ways.

My DH and our male friends are not guilty of the behaviours outlined on this thread but they wouldn't feel the need to interject with "but it's not ALL men!!" during any conversation about VAWG or sexism in the workplace. They acknowledge that male privilege exists and that they benefit from it. They call out misogynistic comments from other men when they hear them. They certainly wouldn't feel the need to pretend that misogyny doesn't exist and is all in the minds of women, as some posters on this thread seem intent on doing.

You can know that some men are great and still recognise that there are widespread problems with male behaviour in our society. Just like the fact that I don't consider myself racist doesn't mean that I can legitimately claim racism isn't a massive problem.

The need to centre themselves in every conversation.

Source: this thread and any other thread about the impact of male behaviour on women and girls.

Well... a good provider is so important though...

They are disgusting.

I remember my eldest dd when she was about that age

Men would openly gawp at her,get in her space and make comments

She would walk home from school,in her uniform and they would shout comments at her and follow her down the street

They'd wolf whistle and try to talk to her-in her bloody school uniform

My younger dd is gay-she has a lovely girlfriend

The amount of men that have told her they could 'turn her straight if you sit on my cock' is unreal

Both women (as they are now) have had to put up with the same crap I've had to put up with my whole life

There are no consequences,no real social pressure to change,their peers don't tell them to pack it in,the police are worse than crap (they 'have a word' which does nothing)

I remember being out with her and her girlfriend a few years ago and a group of teenage lads randomly asked her how old she was

She answered '16' and they just roared 'LEGAL!' at her and tried to get her to sit with them,while pawing at her (she just froze)

I went mental and they did look sheepish but that wasn't the point-they had no right to even look at her,let alone touch her or make comments

Nothing has changed