Cancelling day out due to behaviour

This was posted last month and OP hasn’t come back which is a shame when pp have given time and thought to posting

I would tell her she is obviously tired & she needs to be better to go to the cinema, & you will go when she is calm. As you need to be well behaved in the cinema, & its clear she has not been.
I would also remove the garland & explain to her it wont be replaced as she doesn’t appreciate it.

You should not take her. Even if you give a few quick chores to earn it back, you'll be rewarding bad behavior. Even though she is four, she is still capable of learning that actions have consequences. I have two special needs kids and even they learned that lesson at 4.

Consequences are supposed to be immediate and relevant so I don't see how sending a child to bed early hours later fits either of these criteria. And you are setting up a long lasting connection of bed with punishment. Plus the child is left alone to deal with everything on their own, setting up a problematic method of dealing with trouble for the future.

Totally up to you. This is normal behaviour for 4 y/os at times and it's good to have consequences to teach them it's not appropriate, but that consequence is up to you.

For me, I find the best punishment is to send them to bed early. This way I don't have to cancel plans with them that I actually want to do, I can explain it as "If you're acting this naughty, you must really need some extra rest," and it gives me a bit more kid free time at the end of the day. Plus it's the ultimate punishment having to go to bed an hour early from their point of view. Win x4.

Also, if they complain they're not tired, they're allowed to read in bed if they want after tuck in time, so they're either sleeping or reading/looking at books. Ultimate parent hack that can be pulled out at any time. Won't get up for school? You must be tired. Not listening? You must have tired ears. Tantruming? You must be exhausted. Sassing me? You must need sleep. lol

nice bit of reading comprehension.

I was the one commenting on how a 4 year olds brain isn't developed.
And I said that after, once calm, you can talk about it in simple terms.
When you were angry you hit mummy and it hurt.
That is fine for a 4 year old, and they do need to know it.
or when you were angry you broke your toy and now it is broken, so we have to thrwo it away.
Simple language, simple explanation showing the consequences.

Once they are calm again, they can see what happened.
Punishment? no, because they could not help it.
But there is nothing wrong in showing the consequences.

Of course you also need to find strategies which work to head off the melt down.
For my youngest when I could see she was getting upset about something that appeared to be minor, I finally learnt that what she needed was a firm hug. I would sit down, gather her onto my lap and hold her while she calmed down. The issue was never the thing she was getting upset about.
eg she wouldn't put on her socks for school.
The issue was that she struggled to transition from home to school. Melt downs over socks, then tears in the playground etc etc. If I stopped and gave her that deep hug, we usually managed to get to school without further tears.

Some children are inherently more difficult to parent than others. Basically any strategy works with easy kids as long as it's implemented consistently and fairly.

But some children just don't play ball. Parents often have other children who are easy. They have often tried every strategy.

A tricky child will already be tricky at 4. Many mumsnetters- the ones with easy kids - can't believe that one of the strategies, like cancelling the trip, won't work.

Anyway, this is why I wouldn't recommend cancelling this trip. You can end up constantly punishing, constantly removing stuff, stuck indoors as you've cancelled yet another trip, thinking you are going to eventually see a break through.

And chances are a different approach is needed.

I was tearing my hair out with my younger daughter when she was 4. She was diagnosed with aand PDA at 7. I had no idea. I could have removed stuff til the cows came home and it wouldn't have made a bit of difference.

Interesting contradiction in the comments. Folks talking about a 4 year old brain not being developed (which I agree with) then saying to sit them down and explain/discuss the situation. Nope. They can’t process that either! It’s amygdalal hijack. And sometimes removing yourself from the situation is the right thing to do. I wouldn’t take my child on a treat if they’d behaved like this. But I’d make sure to talk with them to try strategies. I’ve found breathing exercises and verbalising emotions useful.

But then it's not a punishment! Nor a reconciliation gesture. It's everyday life - as it should be.

I just don't think you can punish a 4 year old with chores.

Well, indeed an adult can help. That in a way makes it nicer - a project worked on together, but the kid will have the sensation she is helping at least (even if it would have been quicker for the adult to do it alone, as @Spirallingdownwards says).

These are all things you do with an adult - it's not exactly a chore set up as a quasi punishment, is it?

Pairing socks, folding towels, tidying away toys, making a bed, change water in a pet bowl if relevant, helping put things in cupboards. There is plenty. Then there is the opportunity for praise and she can earn the treat back.

There are plenty of age appropriate chores for a 4 year old (and even younger). Tidy up time started as soon as they could walk for mine. A 4 year old could be asked to dust for example. (They don't need to be able to do it to an adult standard but it is something they can do - and which can be done again without them realising). There is a younger sibling being looked after by OP's mum while they fo. She can fetch changing bags for a change and dispose of nappy etc.

I agree with cancelling today but being able to "earn it back" either with chores or by demonstrating good behaviour for period of time.

She's 4! What age appropriate chores are 4 year olds doing?

I would too but I would give her the chance to earn the treat back for the next day (provided OP has the day off work) with good behaviour and being helpful round the house, doing some age appropriate chores.

Just to be clear, no I wouldn't cancel it. It's weird because I often think posters on here infantilism their children, yet here we have people advocating treating four and a half (which is really VERY young) like a much older child.

At this age, consequences need to be immediate and proportionate. Once she is calm enough to listen, something like a time out possibly if she hurt you when she lashed out. Most important is to talk to her about not doing it again, explain you are hurt, other ways to manage emotions.....

Cancellation of a whole day out is a massive consequence for such a small child......

She’s 4. She’s had big emotions and was struggling to control them which is completely normal. We all have bad days.

To not take her the cinema as a punishment is completely unrelated and she will learn nothing from it other than you didn’t help her work through it.

It’s hard to move past that dated Supernanny advice but please try.

I'd bring back the death penalty for her I think. Some time in the village stocks at least.

Four and a half is plenty old enough to have full, extensive insight into one's emotional responses and the consequences of one's actions.....

Spare the rod and spoil the child......

This. Ffs adults should have control over their emotions.

op, she might be so wound up because you are going out. Dont punish her for it. Be calm.

Personally I would cancel it but I’ll be in the minority.

and reading your and others comments makes me really sad, because it shows how much we simply do not understand children. Stop treating them like mini adults.
I was a strict parent, and tough on bad behaviour.. But I also understood the difference between a temper tantrum, where the child is misbehaving, and an emotional melt down, where something has triggered a distress response. And the trigger can be something 'insignificant' and is often not the real issue.

A child in emotional melt down is physically incapable of stopping by choice. Their brain is being flooded by hormones and they need help from someone else to regulate what is going on. That will vary child to child, some need space, some need to be held/hugged, some need you to just be with them while they calm down.

For those saying that adults have to control their emotions and they need to learn, you'd get arrested for that behaviour as an adult etc etc, yet again, it is simply not understanding the physical difference between the brain of a child and the brain of an adult.
An adult's brain has a fully formed frontal cortext. The decision making part of their brain is able to override the parts of the brain reacting emotionally to an event. Their fully formed brain can make a choice to hold on to the emotion and not express it. A child cannot do that, a child's brain is not fully formed, and when the emotion hits the brain is overwhelemed and the emotion takes over.

As parents we need to help the child to calm down, and get back to a place of regulation and then we can talk to them about what happened. (eg you hit your sister, so now the consequence is) and help them to begin to see what they can do when they feel that way (when you are angry you can hit a pillow) but it is an 18 year long process, and we need to have age appropriate expectations.

'Punishments' rarely work. Consequences do.
But building positive things into your relationship is also essential, so if this is the only time you can take them out 1:1, then don't give it up. You and your child need that too.

She's 4!!

And reading these comments is why society if fucked, ofcourse you should not take her to the cinema, she went off the rails and should not be rewarded for it.

OK she had a meltdown and destroyed something so no she had to learn actions have consequences (something people now seem to forget) it's sad, it's tough but she'll get over it but by not taking her maybe she will thing twice next time.

All the terrible parents who indulge their precious little angels will be making excuses for you to ignore her bad behaviour. Ignore them. Cancel the day out. Bad behaviour needs consequences, and kids are never too young to learn that lesson.

Don't go down the cancelling things route. It has nothing to do with what happened and it means you don't get to go out either. Some kids are anxious about going out and will sabotage plans and be quite happy the trip is off.