How did you work out childcare v working hours?

Having been there, done that (when child care fell through, and at the request of my employer) - don’t, just don’t try and work more hours than you’ve got childcare for on a routine basis.

It works for a couple of extra over the week. It doesn’t work for lots. You juggle constantly, you rarely get proper parent time, or work time, or partner time.

Crunch the numbers for going part time. The pay cut is much less than the FTE cut if you’re a higher rate tax payer.

We looked at the days neither of us were off work and we booked appropriate paid childcare to cover those hours. Aside from COVID noones expected anyone to work without childcare. Your husband is nuts

I know someone who was fired from
the NHS for practically doing this. IT footprint. All very well pretending you’re working 8 hours but your system is only active for 2.5. The tech doesn't lie.

You get full time childcare like the rest of the full time working population or you go part time

And do not agree to logging back on when kids are in bed. Ugh, that reminds me of lockdown when I was telling my mostly unemployed now ex husband that I needed to log on and get some work done and he asked me why I couldn’t just do it when the kids were in bed 🙄

You are completely in the right. There aren't enough hours in the day and you must not do this. There are three losers if you do. The first is your kids who will sometimes be in your care either without receiving the proper attention or who will miss out on you at other times as you catch up with work later, or struggle to cope with the stress that I'm sure will inevitably bleed into your personal life. The second is you, because it is horrible juggling things like this and you already sound like you have a huge amount to deal with. Thirdly, your employer risks suffering. Even if you are incredibly efficient and make up for any missed work later, they have the right to expect that you will be available when you say you will be. Sure, you sound like you have a lot of autonomy and flexibility in how you manage your time at work, but I can imagine plenty of scenarios where something shifts a little or something urgent comes up and you get caught out.

My own NHS role sounds reasonably similar to yours - perhaps I might not be as senior as you are but I have a lot of autonomy and can schedule in a lot of wfh time when I'm not running clinics. I briefly tried to condense my hours so that I could have a day a week off with my DD. Keep in mind this was all above board as I was pledging to make up the hours elsewhere and it was all agreed with my manager. But even this turned out to be a nightmare because as you say, there aren't enough hours in the day. I couldn't get all my work done without staying up stupidly late and even this was disrupted by DD's poor sleep. It was an awful time and I felt like a fraud and ultimately had to choose between a) working 5 'normal' 9 to 5s a week, with the exception of finishing early one day and working late on another, and b) going part-time. I chose route A but only because I was lucky enough to get good childcare and was prepared to pay for it.

You absolutely cannot wfh with kids at that age. My kids are 10 and 7 and I can wfh the odd day now and again if they are sick but I’m definitely not as productive for obvious reasons.

Interesting that your husband is not suggesting that he will try and alter his working hours to try and find a solution. Just expects you to manage it…

It was a joint decision here.

I start later and he finishes earlier. We both made a change and it worked.

Never have either of us suggested it was the others ‘problem’ to solve.

Speaking as someone who had a 5 year old at home during lockdown - do not do what your DH is suggesting. You’ll half arse your job, you’ll half arse your parenting but your stress levels will be double.

Working in the evenings after kids have gone to bed is a killer. Is he offering to do all dinners bath and bed so you can work from 5-9 for example? Or expecting you to help with this time of day then log back in after all the kids are in bed.

I have a flexible job in that I condense 5 days into 4. The 5th day of condense hours I use flexibly. Some weeks I do long days e.g working from 7.30-6pm (instead of 9-5) and other times I choose to log back in and work 3/4 hours in two evenings (tbh it's usually service demand driven for me as to when things need to be done so it works both ways). But having to log back in especially if the kids have been a pickle getting down to bed can be so tiring and exhausting.

I would honestly just look to have childcare sorted for the hours you work/work when DH is home to have kids. And if you don't want kids in full time childcare then you need to look at reducing hours (either of you). I know someone who both parents have condense their hours so have 1 day a week each with their kids at home. So then only 3 days a week childcare.

Or they both do?

@Raindropsandroses123 what's your husband doing to adjust his working pattern?

Your reputation and future career prospects could also be damaged when (not if) work put you on a performance management plan as they aren’t happy with your output (capability) or disciplinary (conduct) investigation.
Easy way to sort it be to tell work you want to return to the clinical setting FT. Much of this is being caused by DH not understanding what WFH means and take the P expecting you to juggle it all. If you were at work you can’t be juggling rest. Simples. Do it until at least pattern established that you can’t do both at the same time. If DH so smart tell him to leave his work to do the pick ups/drop offs.

I work in HR and we all work from home.

1. I get significantly less work done when my kids (4 and 1) are home. That’s despite my MIL looking after them.
2. It’s obvious when staff don’t have formal childcare in place. It will be noticed and it will lead to disciplinary, and possibly dismissal.

Put your kids in childcare during your working hours. If your husband doesn’t like it then he can pretend to be working from home while looking after them.

What planet is he on. So unfair and disrespectful of your job, patients ,you and your employer. You need child care for the hours you are both at work plus travel time for who ever is doing this. It seems its always the man's job is inflexible and top priority no matter what it is and the mother gets to bend over backwards to pull it all in regardless of her role. I wouldn't entertain his rediculousness.

I would tell him where to go. You're not a skivvy or a robot.

Why would you agree to do the following in a 24 hour period?

• Work a full day's work.
• Look after the kids for all but a few hours.
• Do all the drop-offs, pick-ups and (I'm guessing) most of the chores and childcare.

It's a recipe for a complete breakdown.

Let me guess what he does when he leaves work. I'm guessing some combination of the following:

• Parks his bottom on the sofa in front of the TV.
• Goes out with friends.
• Does hobbies
• Potters around doing non-essential chores.
• Goes to the gym.
• Sleeps late because he's so "tired", leaving you to wrangle the kids.

And yet he wants to condemn you to a life where you're literally working around the clock, with your work cutting into your sleep.

Actually I don't think this is a joint decision. Tell him to take a hike.

I don't think many parents have this disagreement because it is ridiculous. Whilst being dishonest, it's a sure-fire way to ruin your reputation at work.

If he wants less childcare, he should do a flexible working request for set shifts. You could also consider working flexibly e.g. less longer days, but you still need childcare or your DH available to look after your kids for all your working hours.

So a band 7 role and your husband working and you had to change jobs because you couldn’t afford childcare? What about your husband, could he afford it? Why isn’t it his responsibility to solve as well?

I was b7 and ft childcare was an expense but still manageable. On a single b7 salary probably not but on two incomes?

your post reads as if it was only you paying, your responsibility. Which is why I assumed you were single.

Well, obviously you can't defraud your employer. Is your DH a bit simple or something?

If i was in your shoes, I'd just get a nanny. By far the simplest solution, and usually the most flexible.

Don’t do this. It will be awful and you will burn out. You will also have to be ignoring your kids/putting them on screens a lot to make it work and that will make you feel awful and guilty. He wouldn’t do it, nor would many men. What would work for you? I would have them in childcare 9-3.30 on days you WFH which would mirror school and be something that is workable going forward and a reasonable flex time type of approach to cover your hours. Then when you pick them up you can give them your full attention xxx

Nope, 2 of us. Never, not once did my husband suggest what he thought I should do. We worked it out between us. He took over as he came in from work as I left for work. He had his children every weekend while I worked.
But I did change jobs to allow for this.

were you a single parent? O/p isn’t, she has two wages coming in so cost doesn’t appear to be the issue.

It’s that he dh wants her to somehow work full time yet not have the children in full time childcare. Without offering to help solve the issue around his own work hours. Which he could do as he works shifts.

I always aimed to have more childcare than working hours - not less, that's bonkers! As well as needing time for admin, commuting and the unexpected, I needed and wanted time to do stuff like my tax return, booking holidays, other paperwork. Children are a giant admin task as well as everything else...

If your DH is so fussed about a parent being "present for the children", he has various options: shared parental leave, drop a day, take a responsibility cut with a pay cut, research different childcare options, work flexibly, work from home... you know, all the stuff mums do routinely.

But let me guess.

He wants you to do it!

Children need to be in childcare for all the hours that neither you or dh are available because you are both working. Why is dh helping 'where he can' on the days he is around. If he's on a day off surely he'll have sole responsibility for the children if it's one of your working days. If he's doing 'back' shift, he will be on dad duties in the morning and then drop them off at childcare before work. It's not helping , it's parenting and sharing responsibilities around work hours.

Your husband’s idea is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard, not to mention extremely disrespectful of your work.

I knew I wanted to go back to work full time, as did my husband. We have twins. We were lucky to have my mum able to provide a day of childcare, then they were in nursery the other 4 days. We would alternate flexi-time, working late and early to swap around drop offs and pick ups.

My DH respected my work and also knew he was a parent with equal responsibility.

I was very similar to you. Senior B7 Mon-Fri, highly stressful, extremely fast paced clinical role.

I asked to compress my 9-5 job into 3 long days on return from Mat leave because I couldn’t actually afford the subsidised childcare for 5 days.
Was turned down with no negotiation or discussion. ( brand new very inexperienced manager ) so I had no choice but to leave after over 18 years in my role.

I got a job (that I absolutely hated to the core of me) that the hours were so good that I didn’t need any external childcare. ( evenings and weekends compressed hours)
Stuck it out for 2.5 years until I got the free hours.

I did what I had to do and do not regret being able to be home with my children, it was wonderful.

Good luck x

If your dh works shifts he can help out.

when I did shifts Dh’s job was 9-5 and we had childcare to cover that. If I was a late shift I’d drop them in at lunchtime, or keep them home on my day off.

if he wants them home more he can step up. Shifts actually work really well for that if you have someone else to pick up outside the 9-5.

If you are happy to lose your clinical registration then go along with your husband. If you want to keep it, do your job properly and be a decent human being, then get childcare that covers all the hours you work.