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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To kick DP's brother out

111 replies

Penelope55 · 24/05/2025 18:00

Apologies in advance as this will be a long one — but need to properly explain the details to get some much-needed advice! I am not a mum yet but love mumsnet and can't think of anywhere better to get some impartial advice — totally ready to hear that I am BU.

So here is what happened: DP and I (both in our 20's) have lived for 3 years in a 3-bedroom house in a very sought-after area. We each have our own bedroom in the upstairs floor as I usually need to study and work well into the night and need my own space (I also often have family and friends overnight). On a different floor there is a completely independent room with a large terrace and an en-suite bathroom. Throughout the years we have always lived with friends renting that room and have always had a very fun, lively envoirement as we are not couple-y at all and enjoy sharing the flat. Recently, there were some huge probelems with the flat (ceilings etc) which meant a renovation was needed and our dear friend had to move out. Me and DP came to an agreement with our landlord and have carried out these renovations in exchange for a reduced rent. This means the contract is now under our name with a clause which allows subletting and we also have a very very good rent for a 3 bed flat in our area. Whilst we can afford the new rent just us two, we always thought of getting someone else to rent the downstairs room but were in no rush and were hoping a friend would move in a few months.

A few months ago, DP's brother got a job in our city and asked DP if he could move in. We were very happy and immediately said yes. Because he is family, we also agreed on a very low rent, so we shared with him our discount (which we got only through investing thousands in the flat) and gave up the really nice room and terrace as well as one of the bathrooms (the largest one in the flat). This was no issue at all and we were so happy to have him! We got on really well and had some great times. Fast forward around a month and he meets a girl, let's call her B. After going on a couple of dates it gets more serious and she comes over to spend the weekend as she lives in a different part of the country: she is lovely and we all get along. Obviously, she can stay over as much as she wants. One week after this, she gets a temporary job in town and asks if she can stay. DP's brother 'asks' by saying 'B will be staying for a couple of weeks, could be a month because of a job, I'm assuming that's okay?'. For us it was no problem at all since it was temporary. She moved in and started the job which lasted 5 weeks. After the 1st week they started officially dating and by the end of it, it became very clear that she had no intention of leaving and that she was looking for a permanent job in town. They never asked us if she could stay, but did say they would like to talk about rent. She said she didn't want to have the obligation to pay rent until she found a job. We should have seen the red flags (there were others, like requesting we don't use the living room one day so they could have a romantic breakfast) but we didn't and agreed she could pay no rent for another month and then start paying a very small amount (mostly bills) from the third month onwards until she found a job. The catch is she never found one (or really looked for one at all!). She wanted a job in a very hard to get into creative industry, but she has no experience and a degree from years ago (DP works in this industry) and she wouldn't take anything else. I offered to give her my babysitting contacs or put a word in for her in a café and she refused. She said she didn't want to take any part-time work until she found her dream job (keep in mind she has never worked in this industry after university and was working in a cafe before she moved in with us).

DP got fed up with everything and had a chat with his brother asking what she is doing and basically ended up blurting out that she was taking advantage of everyone. This is not how I would have gone about it and it was absolutely the wrong way to approach the subject but, in fairness, it was a brother to brother sort of comment. DP's brother immediately told B, who locked herself in her room and didn't come out for the rest of the day and night. I had a chat with DP and we called a flat meeting the next day in which DP profusely apologised to B, explained himself and all around made amends. We all agreed to move on, accept apologies and get along.

The problem is that ever since this happened they have been ignoring us, eat every meal in their room, come out of the room only when we are out... This is especially B as when she is away we all have dinner and have lovely times. This has made me so incredibly anxious in my own home and I feel a sense of dread everytime I go down the stairs to the common floor. I attempted a conversation and all she asked me was for details of when we will be away. They have also gone for a holiday and left their terrace door open (street facing) as well as kitchen knives outside which was so dangerous as we only caught it a couple days later and have left the kitchen very messy when we were away (we are both very clean and tidy but happy to compromise within reason, we never negged them and do most of the cleaning, we just ask that they clean up after themselves). I don't know what to do but we just want to kick them (or her) out! Especially as we never agreed to live with B! We just feel so unwelcome in our own home and this has really taken a toll on my wellbeing especially as I am studying for very important exams and finishing my dissertation alongside working. What should we do? Would really appreciate some advice as we ultimately don't want to cause any issues in the family.

OP posts:
WildflowerConstellations · 25/05/2025 13:11

I think you and DP, while obviously well meaning, have been a bit naive here. Her attitude was surely very obvious when she said she didn't want the burden of paying rent when she wasn't working. Why should everyone else pay rent to live there but she gets to live for for free? It's not a free house, she is living off you.

They should have been paying at least a third of the rent and half on the bills for the whole place, all along. Possibly more considering you had discounted rent due to works you carried out.

I think your DP's brother should go back to live with his parents and she should go to hers.

Penelope55 · 25/05/2025 13:08

ThejoyofNC · 25/05/2025 13:02

This definitely isn't her first rodeo, she knows every trick in the book to try and get her own way.

I would have a serious conversation with brother's parents about the fact that she doesn't have a penny to her name and he is being used to fund everything.

Yes this is what they are so worried about and what they called us to discuss. But at this point it is none of our business. He is always welcome to stay the night by himself if he has to work late in the city but will not have a key. We fully believe he is being taken advantage of so are trying our best to not alienate him whilst staying firm.

OP posts:
howshouldibehave · 25/05/2025 13:08

I can see where your DP's cherky fxxker brother got his entitlement from!

I agree! It really taking the piss for them to tell you what you should and shouldn't be doing with THEIR son and his girlfriend! If they want to dictate how it goes-they can house them from now on.

I wouldn't leave her in the house for 2 weeks whilst you have 4 exams to do if she is causing damage-I think that's a mistake.

ThejoyofNC · 25/05/2025 13:02

This definitely isn't her first rodeo, she knows every trick in the book to try and get her own way.

I would have a serious conversation with brother's parents about the fact that she doesn't have a penny to her name and he is being used to fund everything.

Penelope55 · 25/05/2025 13:01

howshouldibehave · 25/05/2025 12:57

She then said she could never find a place as she has no money at all

Where did she live before?

She lived at her parents and worked in a café which is no problem obviously but it's why we are so surprised she suddently needs an industry job in London. Her argument is that she will now have to turn down this dream job she is about to get since she can't commute from home but obviously we are not falling for it — she had her chance to stay here and she could have worked in a café and saved or could have not made it horrible for everyone and we would all be going for a drink to celebrate her job if she got it!

OP posts:
Duvetsse · 25/05/2025 12:59

Tell your in laws to put them up.
Thd cheek of them to involve themselves in a home they don't pay towards.
I can see where your DP's cherky fxxker brother got his entitlement from!

Two weeks is too long for someone who has damaged the property.
I think that is a mistake.

Tell her to get those marks off the walls by tuesday or you want her out by friday.

Being nice with people like this gets you nowhere.

I wouldn't trust his brother. Better he's gone too.

howshouldibehave · 25/05/2025 12:57

She then said she could never find a place as she has no money at all

Where did she live before?

SinnerBoy · 25/05/2025 12:57

She's also sponging off DP's brother, he just hasn't realised yet. I agree, a month's notice is enough; and be firm about it!

howshouldibehave · 25/05/2025 12:51

They also say we don't own this place so it isn't our house and we aren't the landlords

I'd stop telling your in laws things as they really aren't helping!

I can't believe she thinks she should stay free without a job because she is a grown woman and you can't tell her what to do!

UhhhhhhhOK · 25/05/2025 12:51

Wow that girl is some piece of work. Both are “grown ups” so should deal with grown up realities.

its a good thing to kick them out because in 6 months or so they will both grow up and work out whether they want to be together or not. It will be messy but that’s life.

good luck and hope it works out for you guys

ThinWomansBrain · 25/05/2025 12:44

SunshineAndFizz · 24/05/2025 18:32

A brother to brother chat is best - explaining it’s been nice having them here but it was never meant to be a permanent solution and it’s time they found their own space and you’d also like the space to yourselves.

Don't sugar coat it like this - they'll know when you sublet to another couple.
Be honest - they're taking advantage AND are making you feel uncomfortable in your own home.
Get rid ASAP

GreenCandleWax · 25/05/2025 12:43

Penelope55 · 25/05/2025 12:38

Yes, you are right! We have made it very very clear she has two weeks tops. She absolutely will leave as if she didn't we would obviously change locks etc and she knows that.

You should change the locks anyway after they have gone. You don't want her or someone else coming in and trashing your place while you are not there. Well done OP, hope you are feelling a bit freer already.

Penelope55 · 25/05/2025 12:38

FeedingPidgeons · 25/05/2025 12:31

For goodness sake this isn't complicated

You're worrying about what these people feel, they don't give a flying fuck how you feel

It's your fucking house!

They have zero legal standing to remain, legally you can change the locks right now and be done with them.

Im not suggesting you do that, but thats the situation they need reminding of.

Two weeks notice is more than reasonable. Stop lying down on the floor and being surprised that cheeky fuckers wipe their feet on you.

Yes, you are right! We have made it very very clear she has two weeks tops. She absolutely will leave as if she didn't we would obviously change locks etc and she knows that.

OP posts:
FeedingPidgeons · 25/05/2025 12:31

For goodness sake this isn't complicated

You're worrying about what these people feel, they don't give a flying fuck how you feel

It's your fucking house!

They have zero legal standing to remain, legally you can change the locks right now and be done with them.

Im not suggesting you do that, but thats the situation they need reminding of.

Two weeks notice is more than reasonable. Stop lying down on the floor and being surprised that cheeky fuckers wipe their feet on you.

Penelope55 · 25/05/2025 12:25

EggnogNoggin · 25/05/2025 10:20

You can only control your actions, not their reactions.

Give them notice.

If they make it an issue or cause a family rift, it's on them.

They are taking the piss.

Lesson for you both is have stricter and more formal terms in place at the start so you dont make yourselves a target for this sort of crap. You both sound lovely and I'm loathe to chastise you, but as you get older youll learn that cheeky fuckers are everywhere and they will always make you out to be the bad guys.

Also, for those wondering about giving them money, we pay rent at the end of the month so if they leave by then we will pay the next month ourselves (this is no problem at all for us), so they truly got their money's worth.

OP posts:
Penelope55 · 25/05/2025 12:22

Hello everyone! Thank you so much for all the great advice — many of you have given me a script and a strategy to fall back onto which was great!

We had the conversation early this morning and, as we expected, she did not react well. At first, she completely denied acting awkwardly and said she loved being here with us and was so so thankful (first time we heard any thanks). We kept our ground as I know I am not hallucinating and she ended up admitting she felt very unwelcome and that DP was horrible telling brother that she needs to get a job and start contributing because she was trying very hard but it's difficult etc. She also said she was a grown woman and did not need to be told what to do and shouldn't be forced to get a job she doesn't want (of course this is true, but then she also needs to figure a way to pay her way as we are no longer financing this). This is basically the reason why they have been igoring us and making us feel unwelcome in our common spaces — although this is not how she would put it at all. Brother didn't really say much and waited for her cues.
She promised to move on and said we could all have great times again but obviously we don't want them to force themselves to see us as if it was court mandated time with the landlords lol. We said that ship has sailed, there is no going back from this and I stressed the fact that I have 4 exams over the next two weeks and refuse to dedicate all my energy to this.

We asked she leaves as soon as she can (no more than 2 weeks from now) and told brother he is welcome to stay but we will sublet the other two rooms over the summer and she will not be welcome when we are home. A lot of crying followed as she said any other time would have been okay but now she will probably get this job and will have to refuse the opportunity even though it is her dream. She then said she could never find a place as she has no money at all (maybe she shouldn't have not worked for four months) and will not even get a reference from our landlord (she always knew this and that is the least of her problems). I won't go into all the details but basically anything she could say to make us all feel horrible.

She left for 'her' room, he told us he would probably stay until they found a place but then later came up and said she feels uncomfortable with him staying (all the better for us!)

DP's parents also think we are being a bit unreasonable and we could have let it go until August (this is when our lease renews and we had already told them they couldn't stay after that). However, I feel like the situation completely changed when we started being ignored and made to feel unwelcome in our own home and it is not on us to keep living like this for months. They also say we don't own this place so it isn't our house and we aren't the landlords — this is not at all my view, my parents still rent their home where I grew up and it doesn't make it any less theirs! We have a great relationship with our landlord and neighbours and we feel we truly built a home — also not at all interested in buying as we don't know where life will take us yet!

They left the house a bit after the conversation and we had a look in their room just now and found that she took all her drawings off the walls and there are marks all over as she used tape. Then, in the bathroom, the shower door is derailed. We will have to fix this before we sublet but for now we are just focusing on getting them out. When this happens though, should we just suck up the costs to avoid more drama or should we bill them? Does anyone have any tips on how to get tape marks off walls? It is all over the room and it looks horrible.

Anyways, the worst is over and we have pulled the band-aid — thank you!

OP posts:
EggnogNoggin · 25/05/2025 10:20

You can only control your actions, not their reactions.

Give them notice.

If they make it an issue or cause a family rift, it's on them.

They are taking the piss.

Lesson for you both is have stricter and more formal terms in place at the start so you dont make yourselves a target for this sort of crap. You both sound lovely and I'm loathe to chastise you, but as you get older youll learn that cheeky fuckers are everywhere and they will always make you out to be the bad guys.

Duvetsse · 25/05/2025 10:15

OP, do not trust his brother with your home.
He has shit judgement and is easily manipulated and used.
In fact you are all easily used.
Be very very careful who you sublet to.
Think of how you would get someone out if they changed the locks and refused you back entry?

That happened my friends daughter with a friend of a friend....disaster.
They eventually left but it was months of drama and cost them dearly.

Cheeky fxxkers, users and manipulators are always on the look out for soft touches.

You can be sure she heard all about your great deal from the boyfriend and was absolutely calculated and deliberate in her actions.

Get her out.
Harden up.
Learn from this.
Or it will happen again.

TELL her you want her gone.
Give him a bit of time, a week or so.

Do NOT negotiate at all.
They are rude as fxck and have behaved very badly.

Do not be afraid of falling out with someone who behaves badly.
If you are, your life will be full of users.

CalicoPusscat · 25/05/2025 10:05

Curious about how they'll take it.

I hope for your sake @Penelope55 there's not too much whining and false promises! Unfortunately when someone's outstayed their welcome irritation will only grow. Your flat sounds nice, you should be able to enjoy it without worry.

SpryCat · 25/05/2025 09:58

I hope the meeting goes well and you aren’t made to feel unreasonable, you have done nothing wrong.
Had you been assertive right from the start, GF would off pushed past your boundaries regardless until you would be in the same situation you are in. She is the type that will do everything in her power to get her own way, boundaries, rules and people are trampled on to achieve her wishes, zero fucks are given. If you push back, then she will retaliate in anger, passive aggressively so she needs to move out pronto. I would even give her the money to go back to her mum’s today!

howshouldibehave · 25/05/2025 09:18

* because* he is family, we also agreed on a very low rent, so we shared with him our discount (which we got only through investing thousands in the flat) and gave up the really nice room and terrace as well as one of the bathrooms (the largest one in the flat).

I wouldn't have given up my really nice room/terrace and largest bathroom in my house to someone who moves in and then charge them a really low rent!?

Good you've called a meeting tomorrow. I'd say it's not working out and you want your room/bathroom/terrace/space back. Living with them is now really really awkward and you feel like strangers in your own home. I'd ask her to be gone by the end of tomorrow night. He can stay for a week/month but she isn't to come back. I would be moving back into the nice rooms as well. They can both rent or move back home.

BakelikeBertha · 24/05/2025 23:58

I think the most important thing to remember when you have your meeting tomorrow OP, is DO NOT GIVE AN INCH!!

DO NOT negotiate! Lay out in front of them what you want, and don't budge from it,
IT IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM if she has nowhere to go, and you've already said that DP's brother can go home to his parents, so nothing else is your problem.

If she can't get to the new job IF (and it's probably a BIG if) she gets it, then that's HER problem, NOT YOURS!

STAY FIRM, and remember:

DO NOT NEGOTIATE!

I really hope it all goes well and that she doesn't make a massive scene, but be prepared for it, and hold your ground, as she probably will. Just continue to repeat the day/date she needs to be gone by, and if you've decided to give DP's brother a bit longer to get himself sorted out, then make it clear that she is not to visit, she's taken the piss, MADE YOU FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE IN YOUR OWN HOME, and she will not be welcome!

Please come back and tell us how it goes, as I'm sure everyone who has posted would like to know. Stay calm, you can do this!

CalicoPusscat · 24/05/2025 23:10

I think brother needs to learn to respect your space as well.

Ok sure you were happy to have him there solo but you're not some free for all dosshouse.

CanOfMangoTango · 24/05/2025 22:58

Good advice from @MrsTerryPratchett

It is hard using your "assertiveness muscles" when you've never had to. It feels deeply uncomfortable. But that's OK.

Think of some stock phrases

"It's our home and B is making us feel uncomfortable with her behaviour"

"We don't want to share our space any longer"

"I'm sorry you feel that way, but this is what DP and I have decided"

"This living situation isn't working for us any more"

"We never agreed to B living here, only you BIL"

MrsTerryPratchett · 24/05/2025 22:11

Lying is never ever a substitute for assertiveness unless your safety is at stake.

Very simple recipe for assertiveness:

Get permission for the conversation.
When…
I feel…
Because…
Please…

In this case that would go like this, “hi Fred, do you have a minute to talk about B living here?” <PAUSE> The pause gives him a chance to address the issue or give a solution he’s been thinking about. Maybe he will say, “it’s not working, I know” you never know.

OK if he says, “yes I do have a minute”.

When… describing the situation. “B is living here not paying full rent and now not talking to us.”
I feel… say your emotions, avoid blame and shame. “We feel weird in the house now.”
Because… describe core values or logic. “We wanted roommates to add to the living situation, this isn’t.”
Please… ask for what you want. “Can you find a new place to live in the next two weeks?”

NO!!! Lying, qualifying words, maybes or backing down. No changing the ask. Stay calm and kind, but unwavering. You can acknowledge the emotional content but you cannot sacrifice the practical. Them: “OH GOD WHERE WILL WE LIVE THIS IS SO CRUEL” You: “I know it’s hard, and I am sorry. We do need you gone in two weeks.” “Please can we have a few months?” “It’s just not working, it does need to be two weeks.”

The thing with assertiveness is that it is horrible when you are contemplating doing it. Uncomfortable and awful. Afterwards, you wonder what the fuss was about. And it gets easier and easier to do with practise.

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