To wonder if there's any actual evidence that's trans women are not safe in male loos?

I don’t believe in non binary genders anymore than I believe in God, or Buddha or that the earth is flat. It is not a belief system I have and so yes, I do dismiss the existence of non-binary genders!

There are men, women and everything else is just a societal and/or cultural stereotype

The lack of symmetry in the hate crime statistics is something that activists who rely on those hate crimes against trans people cannot acknowledge.

When you have people being reported for hate crimes because they have been misgendered or have seen a sticker that offended them, there is some serious issues in using those crimes to support a male person coming into a female single sex toilet.

It also puts the issue into a different perspective.

Male people with a transgender identity: concerned at being misgendered so needs safety.

Female people: concerned by a male person who can attack, abuse or just by being in the space remove the expected privacy that space is there for.

But those who use those statistics don’t think of the lack of symmetry. They think they have posted a gotcha.

You’re welcome. Also a biscuit might be good for your blood sugar. You seem a little riled up.

Really dismissive contribution that, thanks.

Similarly your insistence on dismissing the existence of nonbinary genders, not recognising the existence of transpeople and reducing them to a binary they reject is highly manipulative and is a tactic designed to deny their existence, allowing you to disingenuously apply reasoning relating to men as a wider category rather than the tiny minority of people who are transgender.

It’s sticking your fingers in your ears and closing your eyes and not facing the reality that trans people exist and do not fit into your simplistic model.

What makes any person with a transgender identity not of the sex they were born?

So now again we have a situation where women are expected to publicly discuss their trauma to have their needs not dismissed. Do you see how your point works?

I have been abused by male people with transgender identities. Do I have to disclose this to you so that you might listen when I say to you that I don’t want to share my female single sex space with any male person above the age of 8-10 years?

Do I need to have been raped? What will be enough for you?

And enough with the ‘do you even notice’. If you, personally, lack the ability to correctly identify a person’s sex please don’t assume your lack of ability is the norm.

So if TW are not women as you say, then why should they go into women’s spaces? Surely a third space would be needed, or they use the male toilets,which is right as they are male.

And more hyperbolic and emotional manipulative posting. No one has said they ‘hate’ people with trangender identities.

It is not ‘hate’ to state that all male people should be excluded from female single sex provisions. But thanks for showing readers the tactics your arguments rely on to convince others.

Hyperbole and emotional manipulation. Followed up with evidence that lacks symmetry with how attacks and abuse for female people are treated by society and police.

It really is a good demonstration. Thank you.

I think trans women are trans women, not women, and also not men.

And trans men are trans men, not men and also not women.

If you are "all for" women's spaces, that is spaces where males are not allowed, do you think all males should be told to keep out?

Or just some males? In which case, which males should be kept out and which ones allowed in? And for what reasons?

If they are, then that's not women's problem to solve, now is it?

And if getting frustrated at the suggestion that it is constitutes a 'witch hunt' in your eyes, well you do you. I think women are getting thoroughly fed up with having to constantly assert their rights to boundaries in the face of demanding men.

Why would a TW be in more danger in a men’s toilet than say a gay man, or a young boy, or a frail old man? Surely if men are in danger in a men’s toilet, that is not women’s problem to solve, men need to do better if some men are afraid of going into spaces with them.

No, you are not be being thick. The only way to be a transwoman is to be born male.

I don’t think it a huge stretch to think trans women would be in danger in a men’s toilet.

I’m all for women only spaces and the protection of women’s sports but there’s something about this thread and others that have a stench of witch hunt.

I may be being a bit thick but isn’t the fact that TW are not women in the name? If trans means across from and cis means same side (as the TRA keep reminding us), then transwoman literally means across from woman, therefore a man. So the truth is on plain sight

Hangry thinks not wanting transwomen to use women's single sex spaces is "segregation" and "apartheid" because it is treating some women differently from other women. Hangry evidently thinks transwomen are women.

This is why Hangry is wrong. Transwomen belong to the other human sex. They are, in fact, in reality, men.

Indeed! Trans rights people and “allies” should be campaigning for 3rd space unisex toilets - like disabled rights campaigners did for years.

It is literally not women’s problem to provide their single sex toilets as some sort of safe haven for trans women. Women are very welcome to campaign on behalf of trans people to get a 3rd space should they wish.

My LinkedIn is full of professional, seemingly intelligent “be kind” brigade men and women hand wringing over how awful the SC judgement is without ONCE actually acknowledging women’s rights to single sex spaces and the need for a) men to stop being violent and b) the creation of 3rd spaces where anyone can go should they wish to maintain their own privacy and dignity.

The fact that trans people have their own reality isn't a good reason to disregard women's reality.

There's evidence and there's Evidence; cf The Cass Report.

Being asked to use the spaces provided for you is not making anyone a second class citizen. Everyone has a sex and a space provided for their sex. That's equality.

Your appropriation of the struggles of an actual marginalised and persecuted group has moved on from South American sex workers (the murder stats) to black people in South Africa (apartheid ) I see. Who are you going to do next? my money's on people with DSDs.

It’s the reality for trans people, a minority you apparently believe it’s legitimate to hate.

How does requiring someone to use the single sex facilities that exist for members of their own sex along with other members of their own sex "reek of segregation and apartheid" exactly?

Unless your argument is that single sex spaces shouldn't exist at all?

You evidence doesn't reflect genuine vulnerability compared to women as @MissScarletInTheBallroom has clearly indicated.

Transwomen are not being denied anything, regardless of your overblown posting. They can use the facilities for their own sex, just like everybody else. If that is an issue, they can campaign for third spaces.

Men do not have rights to women's spaces. And that is the end of it.