To wonder if there's any actual evidence that's trans women are not safe in male loos?

Did you really?
Funny how nobody talked about this or showed any interest in young butch lesbians (other than to "convert" them) before this High Court ruling

As women have we been reduced to accepting 'no rape or sexual assault' as the best we can hope for!

How about privacy & dignity away from men & trans identifying males when we are in a vulnerable state eg undressing, using the toilet. We absolutely have a right to single sex spaces - it's about much more than protecting ourselves from serious offences.

I dont know of any research on how much women feel their privacy & dignity is compromised in mixed sex toilets - anecdotally I think it's quite high (and probably through the roof for women who have experienced any type of male violence)

There is research that shows that the male pattern of violence is not decreased by them identifying as Trans.

I agree. You can't expect to have all these surgeries and then expect the world to bend to your will. To use my spider example from another thread, having 4 (I'm counting the arms!!) legs sewn on to your body doesn't automatically mean I'll let you live in my shed with the other spiders.

I read a news story last week about a young lesbian (who presented 'butch') who got knocked out and her head stomped for entering a woman's bathroom in the US.

Wow, how victim blaming do you sound! You are no longer at threat, men are not allowed into female spaces.. That doesn’t mean it’s okay to throw trans people in lions den because they might wear lipstick and a mini skirt.

It's not vitriolic for women to put themselves first for fucking once.

I'm willing to believe there may be an increased risk to (some) transwomen in male bathroom facilities, just as there will be increased risk to other groups of men/males.

Doesn't follow any of them should be using the women's toilets though.

Oh give us a fucking break from this tedious vitriolic fucking nastiness.
Please, just one day when someone is not posting this utter fucking hatred.
And no, I am not a man, I have never had a penis or balls and no, none of my sons, nobody in family is trans before any of you horrors accuse me of having skin in the game.
Do you all not have enough problems within your own lives.
Enough!!!

Define "normally".

What ? The trans women I know just dress normally, not “like Barbie”.

Your point is the same as men make about women wearing revealing clothing causing their own rapes - ludicrous and victim blaming.

Women are not being challenged in womens toilets and even if they were I think they would survive it.
And no, a lot of Trans women do not look "no different" to women. No genital inspections are required to know who is a man and who is a woman

Trans women could entirely mitigate any risk by going out wearing gender neutral clothing and no makeup. It wouldn't make them any less women (you can't be any less of a woman than "not a woman" anyway) because lots of women wear jeans and T-shirts and no makeup.

Which rather begs the question, if they can mitigate the risk of being assaulted in public toilets by not dressing like Barbie, why don't they do that?

That's a self-selecting survey 😂

It's not, no.

But the question wasn’t, Are trans women at more of a risk than biological women, it was are trans women put at more of a risk than biological men in a man’s space.

I mean, "crime" is a bit vague, isn't it? This article doesn't actually link to the statistics so we can't dig down into what is actually underpinning this claim.

We know that trans people are less likely to be murdered than any other group.

We also know that hate crime statistics aren't worth the paper they are written on because they don't cover all protected characteristics equally.

(This is appalling because it means someone can get more jail time for murdering a trans woman than for murdering a woman. Theoretically, of course, given that trans people are almost never murdered.)

We also know that 100% of rapes and 98% of sexual assaults are committed by male people, with around 90% of victims being female.

Why do you think trans people should be allowed to "mitigate the risks they face" but women should not?

Because there is a fuck tonne more evidence to suggest that women are at risk from sharing toilets with male people than there is to suggest that trans women are at risk from sharing toilets with other male people.

Chose the most famous trans woman I could think of.. Is CaitlynJenner put at more of a risk than Bruce Jenner In a man’s bathroom, of course she is for obvious reasons. The same reasons why women don’t want Caitlyn in there restrooms. There needs to be a third space.

Or pee in a bottle in an alley. It's what they do when they want to protest about something . The vast majority still have the appropriate plumbing for it.

Interesting. A Swedish study in 2020 found that male-to-female trans people had rates of violent crime that were the same as cis-men (for want of a better term). Sorry, can't link, but here's a screenshot:

In the uk transgender people are twice as likely to experience violence than non transgender people.

Let them mitigate the significant risks they face.

We are in the UK.

Evidence, please?

If third spaces had been campaigned for years ago, instead of expecting women to budge up, we wouldn't need to have this conversation.

You keep saying this without providing any evidence.

And no, it's not equivalent because when women use men's spaces they are choosing to put themselves at risk, whereas when trans identifying males use women's spaces they are choosing to put other people at risk. It's profoundly selfish.

Evidence ?

Sure.

And transgender people are managing their own risk exactly like those women, especially important given that they’re 4x more likely to be a victim of violence that people who are not transgender.