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Original poster

Tory Mp Irish famine

194 replies

Barill22 · 23/05/2025 13:20

Andrew Griffith is al over the news for appearing to make a derogoratory remark about the Irish famine.

Any thoughts? I cant seem to link an article, but if you google his name youll see it

OP posts:
Original poster
Barill22 · 23/05/2025 19:22

UsernameMcUsername · 23/05/2025 19:15

I'm Irish and come from a part of Ireland where people died like flies in the Famine (which wasn't a genocide, sorry), and honestly can't get worked up about this, at all. I suppose its very mildly offensive if I was inclined to be offended about a passing reference to things which happened to my gt gt gt grandparents 160 years ago. The Irish Republic has been independent for a century and is more affluent than the UK these days. Surely we're past the point of being Professionally Offended about Tory backbenchers?

Im irish, i have to say i disagree that ireland is wealthier than the UK.

Salries are higher in ireland. But rent is also hugely higher in ireland than it is in the UK. Healthcare is much much cheaper in the UK.

I work for a company that has offices in ireland and the uk
In the last two years, i worked one year in ireland and one year in the UK, as my company asked me to.
My salary was a bit higher in ireland, but i was left with much less money at the end of the month, as my rent was so high.

OP posts:
BeaRightThere · 23/05/2025 19:21

UsernameMcUsername · 23/05/2025 19:15

I'm Irish and come from a part of Ireland where people died like flies in the Famine (which wasn't a genocide, sorry), and honestly can't get worked up about this, at all. I suppose its very mildly offensive if I was inclined to be offended about a passing reference to things which happened to my gt gt gt grandparents 160 years ago. The Irish Republic has been independent for a century and is more affluent than the UK these days. Surely we're past the point of being Professionally Offended about Tory backbenchers?

You'd like to think so but seemingly not.

BeaRightThere · 23/05/2025 19:20

orangedream · 23/05/2025 19:11

Have a read about Charles Trevelyan's role in the famine and his desire to reduce Ireland's population.

Show quote history

Trevelyan was a terrible person but it was not British government policy to starve the entire population of Ireland to death.

UsernameMcUsername · 23/05/2025 19:18

Probably also worth pointing out that I've never come across a single Irish academic historian who thought the Famine was a 'genocide'. And I waded through a lot of academic literature on the subject back in the day!

UsernameMcUsername · 23/05/2025 19:15

I'm Irish and come from a part of Ireland where people died like flies in the Famine (which wasn't a genocide, sorry), and honestly can't get worked up about this, at all. I suppose its very mildly offensive if I was inclined to be offended about a passing reference to things which happened to my gt gt gt grandparents 160 years ago. The Irish Republic has been independent for a century and is more affluent than the UK these days. Surely we're past the point of being Professionally Offended about Tory backbenchers?

orangedream · 23/05/2025 19:11

ExpressCheckout · 23/05/2025 18:49

UN definition of genocide: "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group".

There was no intention. Yes, it was an abomination, but it cannot be understood as a genocide.

Have a read about Charles Trevelyan's role in the famine and his desire to reduce Ireland's population.

Original poster
Barill22 · 23/05/2025 19:04

BeaRightThere · 23/05/2025 18:58

It does not meet the definition of genocide. And "stealing their land" is a very simplistic view of centuries' worth of history.

Show quote history

I'm not sure why you felt the need to announce that you had a History degree. Its a bit immature. Studying history for three years at uni (if you did) doesnt mean that you all of a sudden have a better knowledge of history than anyone else.

Go over to Northern Ireland, and tell them that you know more than they do about Northern Ireland, because you have a History degree!

I have a degree in another subject. I don't think that I know everything about that subject. Three years at Uni is quite a short time.

OP posts:
NeverDropYourMooncup · 23/05/2025 19:03

Barill22 · 23/05/2025 18:33

The leaving certificate is two years, not three.

Show quote history

Fair enough, maybe that was including a transition year, I'm not that motivated to find out every detail how to do my job in Ireland instead, but even so, 200 hours for two years per subject does represent a significant reduction in learning time.

Original poster
Barill22 · 23/05/2025 18:59

BeaRightThere · 23/05/2025 18:52

And I would also add that your description of events is a very simplistic one

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The snobbery!

At least ive shared my opinion. You haven't written anything except 'it wasn't a genocide'.

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BeaRightThere · 23/05/2025 18:58

Barill22 · 23/05/2025 18:51

You left out the part where the British stole their land before that.
Which led to them becoming extremely poor.

Taking the only available food out of the country -is murder.

Look up the definititon of genocide. It is one

Edited
Show quote history

It does not meet the definition of genocide. And "stealing their land" is a very simplistic view of centuries' worth of history.

Original poster
Barill22 · 23/05/2025 18:57

BeaRightThere · 23/05/2025 18:45

I have a history degree, I do know my history.

Some British people exporting food despite fact that people were starving is terrible, an atrocity - but not a genocide

Show quote history

A history degree. As if that means anything.

Where from - a UK university?

As UK posters have said on here, the UK education system barely looks at Irish history.

So how is your degree relevant in any way?

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WhereIsMyJumper · 23/05/2025 18:55

Barill22 · 23/05/2025 18:51

You left out the part where the British stole their land before that.
Which led to them becoming extremely poor.

Taking the only available food out of the country -is murder.

Look up the definititon of genocide. It is one

Edited
Show quote history

Yes and considering the policy for centuries was essentially trying to outnumber the indigenous RC population with Protestants, I wouldn’t be surprised if a million Irish dead and a million Irish emigrating was more ‘convenient’ for the ruling classes

Unexpecteddrivinginstructor · 23/05/2025 18:52

Lilifer · 23/05/2025 18:30

Wow if your great grand mother was of child bearing age during the famine, that would mean she was born between 1810 and 1830? Which would mean your grand mother was born between 1830 and 1850, and your mother or father between 1850 and perhaps 1890, soooo you’re what, aged between 115 and 155 years old. Wow, a true miracle!

I am 55 and my great grandmother was born in 1884, some 32 years after the end of the famine, but yes I’m sure your great grandmother lived and bore your grandparents between 1845 and 1852, that’s very believable

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My grandmother was born in the 19th century and I am a similar age to you. Just because your family have children fairly young, it doesn't mean that everyone does. Most children in my family have been born when the mother was late 30s. Plus the PP might easily be 20 or 30 years older than us.

Down a paternal line there might be a much larger gap even with some dying young. I had friends at school with fathers who were much older than their mothers. Great grandmother 1820, grandfather 1860, father 1895, PP 1960.

BeaRightThere · 23/05/2025 18:52

BeaRightThere · 23/05/2025 18:45

I have a history degree, I do know my history.

Some British people exporting food despite fact that people were starving is terrible, an atrocity - but not a genocide

Show quote history

And I would also add that your description of events is a very simplistic one

Original poster
Barill22 · 23/05/2025 18:51

BeaRightThere · 23/05/2025 18:45

I have a history degree, I do know my history.

Some British people exporting food despite fact that people were starving is terrible, an atrocity - but not a genocide

Show quote history

You left out the part where the British stole their land before that.
Which led to them becoming extremely poor.

Taking the only available food out of the country -is murder.

Look up the definititon of genocide. It is one

OP posts:
TwoFeralKids · 23/05/2025 18:49

Barill22 · 23/05/2025 15:39

I think the worst part of that time is that the English landlords stole the land from the irish using force,

then rented their own land back to them at extortionate prices

Show quote history

So did the Scots?

ExpressCheckout · 23/05/2025 18:49

UN definition of genocide: "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group".

There was no intention. Yes, it was an abomination, but it cannot be understood as a genocide.

WhereIsMyJumper · 23/05/2025 18:48

BeaRightThere · 23/05/2025 18:45

I have a history degree, I do know my history.

Some British people exporting food despite fact that people were starving is terrible, an atrocity - but not a genocide

Show quote history

It’s just semantics though.
Ive seen a few of these threads on Irish history go the same way.
Constant minimising, accusing Irish people of playing the victim, saying they should get over it. I saw one on another thread saying they doubt any Irish person alive today has been through anything remotely traumatic. My jaw dropped at that one

TwoFeralKids · 23/05/2025 18:47

itsbeenalongnight · 23/05/2025 18:00

I’m Scottish. The whole highland clearances has become a bit of a political football to try and politicise young people against the English. Bad things happened but I don’t want a victim mentality about it. I’d caution Irish people to also resist it. Holds you back in my opinion. Understand your history but respect it not wear it.

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Especially as many of the landowners were Scottish. Seems conveniently forgotten.

TwoFeralKids · 23/05/2025 18:45

Barill22 · 23/05/2025 13:44

Yes the English aristocrats stole irish peoples land.

Then they stole all of the food, until a million people starved to death.

Even if he said it clumsily, it was a stupid thing to say. We dont want to worsen relations between the UK and Ireland

His comment is all over instagram and tiktok

Show quote history

British. Not just the English

BeaRightThere · 23/05/2025 18:45

Barill22 · 23/05/2025 18:43

Well that's completely wrong! Learn your history

The famine was caused by some British people at the time. They stole people's land amd then they stole people's food.

If you steal food, you are intending to cause death.

When they saw people starving to death, they still exported food out of the country.

Edited
Show quote history

I have a history degree, I do know my history.

Some British people exporting food despite fact that people were starving is terrible, an atrocity - but not a genocide

Original poster
Barill22 · 23/05/2025 18:43

BeaRightThere · 23/05/2025 18:37

There was no intent to deliberately kill a million people. Nobody planned it and many British people attempted to ameliorate it.

Show quote history

Well that's completely wrong! Learn your history

The famine was caused by some British people at the time. They stole people's land amd then they stole people's food.

If you steal food, you are intending to cause death.

When they saw people starving to death, they still exported food out of the country.

OP posts:
BeaRightThere · 23/05/2025 18:37

Barill22 · 23/05/2025 18:35

It was a genocide. A million people died, directly because of what another country did to them

It fits the definition of genocide.

Show quote history

There was no intent to deliberately kill a million people. Nobody planned it and many British people attempted to ameliorate it.

BeaRightThere · 23/05/2025 18:36

WhereIsMyJumper · 23/05/2025 18:28

What constitutes as being onboard the victim train? Genuinely want to know. I can’t see anyone playing the victim, just wanting to understand the history and I think it’s important.

Especially seeing as the consequences of British colonialism are still being felt in Northern Ireland.
Imagine having to share a city with the man that killed your family, and having to bump in to him several times after knowing he was released from prison under the GFA, but also knowing that it was better than the alternative of having even more of your family killed.

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Wanting to understand history is of course important. The problem is there is a tendency to want to divide history, which is almost always complicated, into heroes and villains and also to try to understand and judge the past according to modern attitudes and values. Of course the British Empire (of which Ireland was considered a home nation and in which many Irish people participated) did terrible things. The history of British rule in Ireland is complex. The British did awful things here. But to make it such a central part of Irish identity and to continue to let it colour relations today is neither helpful nor productive IMO.

Original poster
Barill22 · 23/05/2025 18:35

BeaRightThere · 23/05/2025 18:27

It was not a genocide.

Show quote history

It was a genocide. A million people died, directly because of what another country did to them

It fits the definition of genocide.

OP posts: