If your child gets a detention at school, do you punish at home too?

True, it is different in Scotland.

English system to be fair, quite different in Scotland.

That is a problem with the UK system, that its so forceful, there are other ways. I'm not in the UK, there's a boy in my DD's school that refuses to attend most of the time. There's no threats to his parents, no fines, instead he has a social worker, trying to get him back in school. In the meantime he doesn't progress because he's missed too much school to pass the year so they keep him back (next year will be his 3rd time in 8th grade) so he doesn't miss out on his opportunity for education (though I don't know what will happen once he turns 18)

But there is so much they learn between 7 and 14, my DD is 14 and she has learnt so much, things she couldn't learn just from reading about them.

I am sorry you had such a bad experience in school, that does explain your view, but it doesn't have to be like that, schools can be safer and more pleasant and more flexible (i can take my children out of school for holidays, just have to ask for permission and never heard of it being denied)

And you are right, some important choices do need to be made by our guardians. But they are no longer given that option. There was a lad stabbed to death in school not that long ago who knew it was coming but, the school demanded he not miss anymore classes. Parents don't have the say anymore.

They can't even take their kids on holiday without repocussions.

Yes I did mention that the basics were vital. But beyond that...not so much. And there nothing to say they have to be learned in the same system we use now.

Between the ages of 7 and 14 for example, I can't think of one thing I learned in school that was useful (and the only reason the 14 plus stuff was 'useful' is that we've deemed It to be necessary to take exams that determine our future based on info learned at that age).

It did however, steal from me, my passion for art...my safety, consistently, and the last day on earth with a relative. I enjured assault, continual sleep deprivation and being made to feel like I didn't even have the right to advocate for my own safety. Which had many ongoing implications in my adult life.

I am not a rarity. And in many ways, the system now is worse.

If they opt out early enough they really won't be able to do many jobs, literacy and numeracy are required in pretty much every job. They would have their options curtailed so much its cruel - a child can't make that kind of choice, adults needs to make such important choices for them.

That's a possibility. Absolutely.

I would counter argue that if you make it optional it gives them - options.

Anyone will tell you, kids LOVE to learn. They love to ask questions and explore. But 'you have to' makes it a chore, takes the fun out, and naturally no one likes that and they rebel.

No one wants to learn with a gun to their head.

The schooling system just isn't fit for it's purpose for many children. How can people get expected to learn in a place that makes them feel forced or unsafe, for example?

Look at the rates of reading comprehension dropping these days. The system doesn't even work.

And IF kids they opt out when they are young, they may opt in at a later point. They could train at any point in life that suits them. Rather than scoffing at 17 year olds who fail exams and can't go to uni. Perhaps they take a class at 15 and that's one grade and another at 19 and there's another. Whatever works for them.

There are theoretically masses of 'manual jobs' going. That's why we've had to increase immigration. Not to mention the arts and various entrepreneurial possibilities. Plenty of people can't do high brow jobs already....does that mean their lives have no value? That they have nothing to contribute? Just because they didn't pass classes as kids?

The point is radical change always creates new issues to solve. That doesn't mean it isn't necessary.

But I'll bow out now as we're derailing the thread a bit. And clearly I can bang on about this subject indefinitely xD

If you make education optional a significant proportion will opt out, what do you propose society does with them? They won't be able to work anything beyond the most basic of manual labour jobs and those are increasingly less available. We'd have masses of unemployable people.

Making them good is not enough though. A guilded cage is still a cage. Some people may be happy to enjoy them comfortably (IF they were so), others would prefer their freedom, we shouldn't get to force children into cages.

I'm suggesting many and varied classes should be optional for all ages, yes. I'd propose that exams could be taken in stages as and when the child or even, adult is ready too. Individually. Therefore, distinctly less horrible exam stresses.

And perhaps a system of community based learning whereby the elderly can come out of retirement to teach skills. Therefore aldo reducing the loneliness epidemic amongst the elderly.

There are just suggestions, I'm not here to say I can propose magical, problem free alternatives. I'm simply saying we need to change what we have now.

The current system...is a prison for children and it isn't ok and we should look into alternatives because no child should be forced into staying in an environment that they hate for a vast portion of their life. Let alone when it is unsafe. And arguably, designed to strip them off their individuality in favour of cohesive subservience.

Two key things for me

• you have control of the homework situation. He shouldn't be failing to turn it in under any circumstances. If you choose to let thst slide then the detention is enough (although IMO you shouldn't be allowing that)

• 5 lots of passing about for 1 detention and multiple detentions speaks volumes as to his general behaviour at school being below standard.

Would his behaviour at home be triggering signatires/detention? If not, then he is actively choosing to behave worse at school.

So yes, based on patterns of behaviour he would be held accountable at home as well to ensure changes at school.

Detentions aren't working and I wouldn't be complacent to shrug my shoulders and let him piss away his future because it isn't on my watch.

He'd be required to be detention free for devices or going out with friends.

You suggested a system where classes would be optional for all ages, how do you think that would play out other than one group getting educated and another not? Far too many would choose to opt out.

Making schools better so less children are distressed by them is good, making school optional for them is not. It is writing them off.

There's no way to know what issues would occur from any education system overall though. There's always divides in society. There's certainly huge educational divides too. I'm not proposing that we stop education. It should be overhauled and, incentivised. I think you'll find if we remove foricing people to learn, in the way WE want them to...many may more inclined to want to learn, in a way that works for them.

But forcing children to be in a faceless, clinical establishments where often they are put at risk, day in and day out ..it's just not good for anyone. Well, anyone but a government intent on churning out compliant factory workers I suppose.

If he didn't learn anything from detention, by getting it again then I think he should be punished at home too.

I would, I am very mean probably. We are rural so a detention requires a parent to come and fetch as will miss the school bus ( no public transport, 9 mile walk by a national speed limit road with no lighting or pavement etc.)

My general rule is my time is valuable so if you make me give it up as you can’t behave then you will be given a job to allow me to recover my lost time. Something boring but measurable (weeding the gravel type stuff) only ever had one detention funnily enough.

I said 'a new class system' so not the current socio-economic class system but a new one based on education, and it'll be an even bigger divide. I would not want to live in a world where only a minority are educated.

Punishment, no, but sounds like conversation is needed. What sort of stupid things? Is he very disorganised, could you help him with that?

Class doesn't determine interest in learning. Certainly not amongst young children. It may affect interest in learning 'in school' but a lot child is happy to learn in some way or another. Be it through books, TV or tactile things like music or art. People are individuals, have different interests and learn differently.

The fact is, the system as it stands is oppressive and wrong. 'Go to school or we'll jail your parents'.

Regardless of how alternatives could be implemented and what new implications they may bring, it is a breach of human rights to force people to be somewhere against their will. Especially when it in some cases, is emotionally and physically dangerous for them (schools with knife crime). Them being children shouldn't affect that.

@Thepeopleversuswork
The reason many people feel that at 18 is because they've just been trapped for the last 15 years of their lifes. The reason they move on from it is because they just want to forget their trauma. We tell ourselves it's just part of life and now it's time for the next lot of kids to suffer through it.

That's not maturing, it is repression.

Letting children opt out of lessons they don't want to do once they've learnt to read (because then they can teach themselves everything else, apparently) would be a very quick way to create a new class system - the educated who have either self motivation to learn, or parents who care enough to force them to go to classes, and the uneducated who will labour in unskilled manual work until its completely replaced by automation, and then live horrible poor lives, because they didn't have the self motivation to learn or parents who cared enough to make them.

@Sodthesystem

Once you can read, you can educate yourself on everything else. And classes should be optional for people of all ages. But currently we do not allow for that system wise.

Hmmm OK. How do you expect them to learn to read if you allow them to opt out of homework because they're not getting paid?

Your attitude reminds me of people I knew when I was a teenager. Most of them grew out of it by the time they were about 18 and honestly it's just as well you don't have kids.

This is a rather dramatic and somber account of school. Was it really that bad?! Many children love going back to school after the holidays; they like the routine, and seeing their friends and teachers again.

The problem really is that the children for whom detention WOULD be a big thing... are also the children who don't get detention in the first place! . I am fairly confident that when my DD goes to high school, she will not ever get detention and if she does, she will be so mortified, she will instantly and forever modify whatever behaviour led to the detention!

Having said that, whent hey have to start missing things they love becuase of detention it can be helpful. I do have huge issues with HOW detention is handled though. I personally think they should be made to DO things in detention - write essays, maths quizzes on their ipads, classroom cleaning.... something!

Mine only had detentions for forgetting the right text book/equipment for the lesson, so no-I wouldn't have done anything at home. If they were getting repeated detentions for being rude/argumentative etc then that's a whole different story and yes, I would be looking at consequences at home.

No punishments per se but definitly natural consequences of their (poor) choices yes. Especially for repeated ones

Depends what it was for but as you mention it’s continuous, then yes, sounds like his behaviour at school needs to be dealt with at home.

What works for one child/family might not work for the other. My son’s school has the SIM app, so gets positive and negative points. If he gets any negative, no PC that day… that’s it! There is no drama because he understands, and it usually works. He knows the rules in school, it’s not difficult. When he gets detention (which he doesnt mind much 🫠), depending the reason for it, then no PC and no phone. And a lot of talking - that’s probably what he hates the most 🤣