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Original poster

You scumbag You maggot you cheap lousy…

192 replies

TeaAndToast8 · 20/05/2025 21:51

My second AIBU Of the night, husbands being very argumentative! Anyway, I’ve screenshot two examples of what the Kirsty MacColl might have meant in Fairy Tale of NewYork. Who is correct.. My opinion is the description underlined in red and my husband’s is blue.

You scumbag You maggot you cheap lousy…
OP posts:
GenderFluid90 · 20/05/2025 22:46

ShinyAppleDreamingOfTheSea · 20/05/2025 22:45

I’m not convinced that the word fag as slang for cigarettes has anything to do with the slur for gay men. Why would it ? If anything it’s a stick you burn.

It does and you know it.

ShinyAppleDreamingOfTheSea · 20/05/2025 22:45

I’m not convinced that the word fag as slang for cigarettes has anything to do with the slur for gay men. Why would it ? If anything it’s a stick you burn.

Willyoujustbequiet · 20/05/2025 22:45

ShinyAppleDreamingOfTheSea · 20/05/2025 22:40

The song may be about New York, but it’s an Irish song, not American. It was written in the 1980s.

It's English.

GenderFluid90 · 20/05/2025 22:45

Platformbootsandaboa · 20/05/2025 22:40

This. In my childhood (I’m 65) ‘you lazy faggot,’ was a commonplace expression, not offensive or linked to sexuality at all.

Show quote history

That was a long time ago though. Its been considered offensive for many years not its not recent

justasking111 · 20/05/2025 22:44

I used to buy faggots from the butchers tasty meal. Brains faggots haven't changed their packaging yet.

GenderFluid90 · 20/05/2025 22:44

Problem is with this topic. Everyone knows its now used as a gay slur and that's it's now offensive. Irrelevant to whatever it meant many moons ago.

However people will obviously rush to thread with every other meaning under the sun. Just to be obtuse. 🤷🏼‍♀️ Just to deny its now considered offensive.

So the argument will never end.

InterruptingRabbit · 20/05/2025 22:44

ShamrockShenanigans · 20/05/2025 22:08

Having said that though, Fairytale of New York is an Irish/American song.

And it's well documented that faggot is a gay slur in America.

They certainly knew that when writing it.

In what way is it an American song?

The Pogues were British and Irish, the song was written by two members of The Pogues, and Kirsty MacColl was British.

ETA - I actually agree that any original meaning is irrelevant to how offensive it is now. But it’s not an American song.

EggCustardTart · 20/05/2025 22:42

SwanOfThoseThings · 20/05/2025 22:19

Well, it's a novelty to have this thread in May, not December Xmas Grin

😂

Save time this Christmas by getting the debate out of the way early this year?

Willyoujustbequiet · 20/05/2025 22:42

It was written in England by an Englishman tbf so it could easily mean lazy.

It's also a food with peas or a bundle of sticks. The original definitions existed for hundreds of years before it became a slur to some.

swimsong · 20/05/2025 22:40

Incidentally - and irrelevantly - it's also the origin of the term fascism.The Italian term fascismo is derived from fascio, meaning 'bundle of sticks', ultimately from the Latin word fasces. This was a symbol of 'Strength through Unity' going back to Roman Times.

Platformbootsandaboa · 20/05/2025 22:40

AnnabelleQuelle · 20/05/2025 21:55

This. And I thought most people knew that. It’s only recently become offensive.

Show quote history

This. In my childhood (I’m 65) ‘you lazy faggot,’ was a commonplace expression, not offensive or linked to sexuality at all.

Scout2016 · 20/05/2025 22:40

I like these alternative lyrics!
Not to derail but does anyone know why The Police sang about (Sue Sue) Sue Lawley?

ShinyAppleDreamingOfTheSea · 20/05/2025 22:40

The song may be about New York, but it’s an Irish song, not American. It was written in the 1980s.

Doingtheboxerbeat · 20/05/2025 22:39

I literally had Brains Faggots a couple of weeks ago, they're not as delicious as I remember but they were £1.19 for about 8 so that makes sense .

I wince when my mum calls cigarettes fags, but she is old and it's not a ditch I'm willing to die in trying to get her to change her language at this late stage.

Mydogmylife · 20/05/2025 22:38

ShamrockShenanigans · 20/05/2025 22:12

It was only standard usage if you lived in Ireland.

Show quote history

Or Scotland - England doesn’t have full control of the language !!!

DustlandFairytaleBeginning · 20/05/2025 22:38

ShamrockShenanigans · 20/05/2025 22:08

Having said that though, Fairytale of New York is an Irish/American song.

And it's well documented that faggot is a gay slur in America.

They certainly knew that when writing it.

I don't think it's American at all besides mentioning NYC- I have played it for many Americans and they don't know the song at all and are surprised to find out its a Christmas song!

maras2 · 20/05/2025 22:36

Faggot/ Faggotti are music wind instruments also known as Bassoon. Smile

ChocolateGanache · 20/05/2025 22:36

ArabellaScott · 20/05/2025 22:33

😂

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🤣🤣🤣

ChocolateGanache · 20/05/2025 22:36

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

🤣 “JEREMY!!!”

ArabellaScott · 20/05/2025 22:33

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 20/05/2025 22:07

I thought it was “you’ve taped over Taggart”

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😂

JHound · 20/05/2025 22:32

Your husband is a blithering idiot.

Scout2016 · 20/05/2025 22:31

Yeah it was faggots, payse and gravy where I grew up. Sonetimes in a basket which fascinated me given liquid and woven containers don't go. Turned out there was some waxy paper lining to save the day. Luckily I was veggie.

But as others say OP I don't think you or your husband are correct. So at least no one gets to win that argument.

SwanOfThoseThings · 20/05/2025 22:31

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 20/05/2025 22:07

I thought it was “you’ve taped over Taggart”

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That would be more convincing as a bitter reproach than 'you're cheap and you're haggard'. Whoever screams at their other half during a row ".. and you're haggard!"

AthWat · 20/05/2025 22:30

I'm quite old and I have never, ever, ever heard "faggot" used to mean a lazy person, or read it thus used in old books, or seen it in old films. Nor do any dictionaries I can quickly access give that meaning. Does anyone claiming it was have any examples?

Ponoka7 · 20/05/2025 22:29

MissConductUS · 20/05/2025 22:22

What I find remarkable about this song is that I had never heard of it until I joined MN, and I’m a native New Yorker.

It was named after a book one of the writers of the song Jem Finer, was reading.

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