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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

You scumbag You maggot you cheap lousy…

192 replies

TeaAndToast8 · 20/05/2025 21:51

My second AIBU Of the night, husbands being very argumentative! Anyway, I’ve screenshot two examples of what the Kirsty MacColl might have meant in Fairy Tale of NewYork. Who is correct.. My opinion is the description underlined in red and my husband’s is blue.

You scumbag You maggot you cheap lousy…
OP posts:
BaseDrops · 20/05/2025 23:10

Going by the standard of “old slut on junk” I’d go with option one.

Isthismykarma · 20/05/2025 23:08

When my young friend in his 20s was beaten up in Manchester a couple of years ago, they were shouting faggot as they stomped on his head and kicked him in his ribs. And every Christmas he has to hear people defend their use of the word to the death.

Regardless of what the word once meant, it now means something different, and can be really distressing for people to hear.

DeSoleil · 20/05/2025 23:07

It’s not offensive in the way you think it is as already mentioned by others it refers to being bone idle or lazy.

You do realise that The Pogues had a guitarist who was openly gay?

Philip Chevron (Philip Ryan).

You will now have to make a grovelling apology to your husband!

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 20/05/2025 23:05

GenderFluid90 · 20/05/2025 22:45

That was a long time ago though. Its been considered offensive for many years not its not recent

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Many things are now considered offensive that were once acceptable, most of literature for example, it doesn’t mean there isn’t a place for them with the right context.

Willyoujustbequiet · 20/05/2025 23:05

AthWat · 20/05/2025 23:03

Who's "we"? Are you Irish then? I can't say "faggot" never meant a lazy person in Ireland but it certainly never, ever did in England. And I'm not sure the Irish have a stronger claim to own the English language than the Americans.

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It certainly did mean lazy in northern England/borders region.

Middleagedstriker · 20/05/2025 23:04

It doesn't make sense that she calls him a faggot in the homophobic sense with the rest of the words.

AthWat · 20/05/2025 23:03

blacksax · 20/05/2025 22:09

So... Americans use one of our words to mean something different in their country. And now we aren't allowed to use the word in its standard usage here because it offends them.

They've managed to get the meaning of 'bum' and 'tramp' wrong as well, and 'arse' and 'ass'. So I think we can safely ignore their interpretations. The twits.

Who's "we"? Are you Irish then? I can't say "faggot" never meant a lazy person in Ireland but it certainly never, ever did in England. And I'm not sure the Irish have a stronger claim to own the English language than the Americans.

Willyoujustbequiet · 20/05/2025 23:01

@InterruptingRabbit

Yes sorry my predictive text, I was surprised to find out he was born and raised in England.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 20/05/2025 23:01

ShamrockShenanigans · 20/05/2025 22:08

Having said that though, Fairytale of New York is an Irish/American song.

And it's well documented that faggot is a gay slur in America.

They certainly knew that when writing it.

It’s actually an Irish folk ballad and references NY but it isn’t an American song. Written by Irish and English artists and recorded in London.

No one that I knew at that time used the word faggot as any kind of slur in the UK. You used faggots to light a bonfire or you ate them.

VapeHelp · 20/05/2025 22:57

ShamrockShenanigans · 20/05/2025 22:54

Yes, we just don't call people fags but I'm guessing you know that?

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Yes I know that, I never used it for people in the first place.

This thread has made me really fancy a fag now

AthWat · 20/05/2025 22:56

Platformbootsandaboa · 20/05/2025 22:40

This. In my childhood (I’m 65) ‘you lazy faggot,’ was a commonplace expression, not offensive or linked to sexuality at all.

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Where? I've never ever heard this.

Amelie2025 · 20/05/2025 22:56

AnnabelleQuelle · 20/05/2025 21:55

This. And I thought most people knew that. It’s only recently become offensive.

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And again THIS

InterruptingRabbit · 20/05/2025 22:56

Willyoujustbequiet · 20/05/2025 22:51

It's certainly got an Irish vibe but Jem is English, Sean was born in Kent, Kirsty was English and it was written and produced (another Englishman) in England.

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Do you mean Shane? He was born in Kent to Irish parents which is why I said the band was British and Irish.

CorbyTrouserPress · 20/05/2025 22:55

GenderFluid90 · 20/05/2025 22:51

Well unless you've lived with your head buried in the sand its also been used as a slur towards gay men in our community. A very nasty one.

But there's no convincing some people. Unless they've experienced it, they'll never appreciate how hurtful it can be

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That wasn’t the question.

How is calling a cigarette a fag the same as calling a gay man a fag. Last time I looked gay men were not cigarettes.

ShamrockShenanigans · 20/05/2025 22:54

VapeHelp · 20/05/2025 22:51

Whut? Are we not allowed to call cigarettes fags any more?

Yes, we just don't call people fags but I'm guessing you know that?

GenderFluid90 · 20/05/2025 22:52

InterruptingRabbit · 20/05/2025 22:51

Using it to mean a cigarette long pre-dates any use as an offensive term.

I wouldn’t use it now. But it was used for cigarettes first.

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Yes but now it's an insult. Thankyou for not using it now 😊

ShamrockShenanigans · 20/05/2025 22:52

Mydogmylife · 20/05/2025 22:38

Or Scotland - England doesn’t have full control of the language !!!

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I didn't mention England?

GenderFluid90 · 20/05/2025 22:51

CorbyTrouserPress · 20/05/2025 22:49

How?

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Well unless you've lived with your head buried in the sand its also been used as a slur towards gay men in our community. A very nasty one.

But there's no convincing some people. Unless they've experienced it, they'll never appreciate how hurtful it can be

VapeHelp · 20/05/2025 22:51

Whut? Are we not allowed to call cigarettes fags any more?

Pistachiocake · 20/05/2025 22:51

It's funny people usually mention that and not the "Old s-ut on junk"-which meaning was it? Lazy housewife, or the other? Either, it's strange that people seldom mention that it's sexist as the term is seldom used about men.

Serpentstooth · 20/05/2025 22:51

Do they still have fags at Eton? America swoons in horror.

ShamrockShenanigans · 20/05/2025 22:51

DustlandFairytaleBeginning · 20/05/2025 22:38

I don't think it's American at all besides mentioning NYC- I have played it for many Americans and they don't know the song at all and are surprised to find out its a Christmas song!

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It's an Irish/American song as in it's about Irish immigrants in America.

Therefore when Kirsty McCall was calling Shane McGowan a faggot, she was doing it as an 'Irish woman living in America'.

It's one of the main reasons opinion is split.

And of course the writers very much knew what it means in America, regardless of what it meant in Ireland.

Willyoujustbequiet · 20/05/2025 22:51

InterruptingRabbit · 20/05/2025 22:44

In what way is it an American song?

The Pogues were British and Irish, the song was written by two members of The Pogues, and Kirsty MacColl was British.

ETA - I actually agree that any original meaning is irrelevant to how offensive it is now. But it’s not an American song.

Edited
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It's certainly got an Irish vibe but Jem is English, Sean was born in Kent, Kirsty was English and it was written and produced (another Englishman) in England.

InterruptingRabbit · 20/05/2025 22:51

GenderFluid90 · 20/05/2025 22:46

It does and you know it.

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Using it to mean a cigarette long pre-dates any use as an offensive term.

I wouldn’t use it now. But it was used for cigarettes first.

CorbyTrouserPress · 20/05/2025 22:49

GenderFluid90 · 20/05/2025 22:46

It does and you know it.

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How?

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